Right to repair, does this mean reg service kits will become more easily available?

[simonhi99]

Now all we are asking is for Apeks Marine to supply to the public at a printed retail price the two genuine Apeks Marine service spares kits for 1st and 2nd. It's not hard but if it fails to happen this time around then things get messy and it's not like this is the first time we have all discussed this.

It's not just Apeks, it all the manufacturers.

Back to your point about service kits having dates on them, I don't know any manufacturer (Apeks, Cressi, ScubaPro, Beuchat, Oceanic etc etc) that does this, do you?

[jamesp]

Hey I like that regulator (the MTX-R i mean) in fact I love it. It represents all that is great about young modern aesthetic design.
Dont dick with the inside or the engineering and everyone is happy. Apeks then get to hire in a product design outfit who just get to change the shell apearance and colour.

And we are all happy and no one dies.

Now all we are asking is for Apeks Marine to supply to the public at a printed retail price the two genuine Apeks Marine service spares kits for 1st and 2nd. It's not hard but if it fails to happen this time around then things get messy and it's not like this is the first time we have all discussed this.

On the separate subject you made of machining the Y on the 5th axis lathe I'm afraid to say your spot on no doubt we will discuss this aspect again

Apeks are running ten axis lathes, quite a few of them.
One of their setters is now an applications engineer with the UK distributor of them.

[WFO]

Apeks are running ten axis lathes, quite a few of them.
One of their setters is now an applications engineer with the UK distributor of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJembp6ty_4

[iain/hsm]

It's not just Apeks, it all the manufacturers.

Back to your point about service kits having dates on them, I don't know any manufacturer (Apeks, Cressi, ScubaPro, Beuchat, Oceanic etc etc) that does this, do you?

They all do its part of the CE requirement. All 0-ring materials seals and gaskets used in the manufacture of regulators have a recorded date of manufacture and a maximum self life.
You just don't get to see it because you dont ask and its not in the suppliers or the (LDS) interest to tell you.

That way it allows both manufacturers and retailers to "palm off" old seals and soft goods such as gaskets and polyurethane HP seats with only a short shelf life left to the public in those service kits you do manage to get under the counter. Hence my request for them to play fair and disclose the cure date.

By Apex Marine et al not doing this it covers two extra "requirements" from both the manufacturer/supplier and the retailer that is against the interests of the self service diver. First it makes the end user service kits under achieve maximum potential performance and second it gets rid of any old stock lying around.

Now please realize that despite what those "in the trade" posers tell you old seals and polymers can be up to 10 years old by the time you get them "New"

Look I know Apeks Marine as others dont like this information being made public but more will follow and maybe more than they would like if i'm pushed to disclose.

But the information of soft goods regardless of material Nitrile Viton FKM or even Apex Marine's EPDM all have a recognised maximum shelf life.
When Apex Marine but 0-rings they buy in bulk and the supplier supplies with the goods a cure date (DOM) a batch numbers and a compound number. This information is recorded.

Our issue as divers is that we dont get palmed off with 10 year old "washers" when we finally do get spares kits off the shelf from our local dive shops and we get them at a transparant recognized retail re sale retail price.

Now I am aware of the alternative fight back thats being put in place to counteract divers getting spares more on that later.

But the bottom line is everything soft and rubbery fails over time, knowing how old it is before you buy it is key. Hope that answered your question
If you have more questions dont hesitate to ask its a free forum and information on this aspect of parts supply needs to be shared.

[graham_hk]

They all do its part of the CE requirement. All 0-ring materials seals and gaskets used in the manufacture of regulators have a recorded date of manufacture and a maximum self life.
You just don't get to see it because you dont ask and its not in the suppliers or the (LDS) interest to tell you.

That way it allows both manufacturers and retailers to "palm off" old seals and soft goods such as gaskets and polyurethane HP seats with only a short shelf life left to the public in those service kits you do manage to get under the counter. Hence my request for them to play fair and disclose the cure date.

By Apex Marine et al not doing this it covers two extra "requirements" from both the manufacturer/supplier and the retailer that is against the interests of the self service diver. First it makes the end user service kits under achieve maximum potential performance and second it gets rid of any old stock lying around.

Now please realize that despite what those "in the trade" posers tell you old seals and polymers can be up to 10 years old by the time you get them "New"

Look I know Apeks Marine as others dont like this information being made public but more will follow and maybe more than they would like if i'm pushed to disclose.

But the information of soft goods regardless of material Nitrile Viton FKM or even Apex Marine's EPDM all have a recognised maximum shelf life.
When Apex Marine but 0-rings they buy in bulk and the supplier supplies with the goods a cure date (DOM) a batch numbers and a compound number. This information is recorded.

Our issue as divers is that we dont get palmed off with 10 year old "washers" when we finally do get spares kits off the shelf from our local dive shops and we get them at a transparant recognized retail re sale retail price.

Now I am aware of the alternative fight back thats being put in place to counteract divers getting spares more on that later.

But the bottom line is everything soft and rubbery fails over time, knowing how old it is before you buy it is key. Hope that answered your question
If you have more questions dont hesitate to ask its a free forum and information on this aspect of parts supply needs to be shared.

ha APEX

(and even funnier you edited - whilst I posted it as a joke you are clearly of suboptimal intelligence)

[iain/hsm]

Some of these points are a little disingenuous, irrelevant or inaccurate. To address specifics:

In the interests of full disclosure - I own a dive centre and use Apeks regs for my personal diving and rental equipment (Total of 20 in the water on one dive during the cave multistage class I was teaching this week). Apeks have kindly sponsored events I have run in the past, but I am very particular about not being personally sponsored by any manufacturer. I like to retain the ability to give students an unbiased opinion on what kit is good and what is crap. Instructors who claim that brand X (that they happen to be sponsored by) is definitely the best one year, and brand Y the following year come across as a bit shady and lose credibility.

Like you said dude some of your points are a little disingenuous some a liitle irrelevant or inaccurate.
But my first question to you is this.

Would you like to talk about your "sponsorship" with Apeks Marine a little more out in Mexico just as long as you don't come across as a bit shady and lose credibility that is.
Then I will address every specific you could ever make. Something to think about.

[iain/hsm]

ha APEX

(and even funnier you edited - whilst I posted it as a joke you are clearly of suboptimal intelligence)

Heck Graham I forgot your just too anal. How's getting a girlfriend going.
Can I get back to you later I really should go back and answer Woz first, then Lanny, then you.
If your OK with that,

[Lanny]

Like you said dude some of your points are a little disingenuous some a liitle irrelevant or inaccurate.
But my first question to you is this.

Would you like to talk about your "sponsorship" with Apeks Marine a little more out in Mexico just as long as you don't come across as a bit shady and lose credibility that is.
Then I will address every specific you could ever make. Something to think about.

Quiet day buddy?! As I said in my original post, I am very particular in not being personally sponsored so I can be absolutely honest when recommending equipment to students. Apeks have supported the Cave Camp event (which I run) in the past, providing draw prizes, some nice things for the campers' goody bags, and funding one of the social events. Totally transparent, not shady, and I reserve the right to be 100% honest in my advice on any equipment decisions made by my students.

[graham_hk]

Heck Graham I forgot your just too anal. How's getting a girlfriend going.
Can I get back to you later I really should go back and answer Woz first, then Lanny, then you.
If your OK with that,

*You're ... as in You're a bell end.

Really, if you're going to pick somebody up, for a joke you don't get, and then call them anal you should try harder to get your posts correct.

Your worth to this forum is about as good as your grammar!

[iain/hsm]

Apeks are running ten axis lathes, quite a few of them.
One of their setters is now an applications engineer with the UK distributor of them.

I'm back to the diving section. I miss all the flack from the featherweights.

Great. Does he have the DFx files, I can give him an application. Publish them on the forum Qanon, I cant.
And if they dont like this they will hate what's coming. All we are asking is Spares Kits in the UK at a fair and Punlished Retail Price

However in other news worse is yet to come.

Now with Apeks Marine the latest hype to kill off the spares kits for the UK market is they will or are already offering now "Free Servicing"

Yes drop your Apeks Marine regulator into a participating UK Retail Slatwall LDS once a year and get free servicing.

What's the catch I hear you say:

Well only the parts are free you still pay for all the labour, but without someone publishing the parts price list in the first place
how do you know its a fair price and not another LDS UK dive shop rip off.
Besides you also have to have the regulator from new and service it once a year, Bless.

[iain/hsm]

*You're ... as in You're a bell end.

Really, if you're going to pick somebody up, for a joke you don't get, and then call them anal you should try harder to get your posts correct.

Your worth to this forum is about as good as your grammar!

My worth to the forum you can count on each and every post I made on topic accurate and informative

You on the other hand are yet to address anything even close to the subject matter of this post save hounding me like some yapping pup
Your still angry with your girlfrend I guess.

[Timw]

They all do its part of the CE requirement. All 0-ring materials seals and gaskets used in the manufacture of regulators have a recorded date of manufacture and a maximum self life.
You just don't get to see it because you dont ask and its not in the suppliers or the (LDS) interest to tell you.

That way it allows both manufacturers and retailers to "palm off" old seals and soft goods such as gaskets and polyurethane HP seats with only a short shelf life left to the public in those service kits you do manage to get under the counter. Hence my request for them to play fair and disclose the cure date.

By Apex Marine et al not doing this it covers two extra "requirements" from both the manufacturer/supplier and the retailer that is against the interests of the self service diver. First it makes the end user service kits under achieve maximum potential performance and second it gets rid of any old stock lying around.

Now please realize that despite what those "in the trade" posers tell you old seals and polymers can be up to 10 years old by the time you get them "New"

Look I know Apeks Marine as others dont like this information being made public but more will follow and maybe more than they would like if i'm pushed to disclose.

But the information of soft goods regardless of material Nitrile Viton FKM or even Apex Marine's EPDM all have a recognised maximum shelf life.
When Apex Marine but 0-rings they buy in bulk and the supplier supplies with the goods a cure date (DOM) a batch numbers and a compound number. This information is recorded.

Our issue as divers is that we dont get palmed off with 10 year old "washers" when we finally do get spares kits off the shelf from our local dive shops and we get them at a transparant recognized retail re sale retail price.

Now I am aware of the alternative fight back thats being put in place to counteract divers getting spares more on that later.

But the bottom line is everything soft and rubbery fails over time, knowing how old it is before you buy it is key. Hope that answered your question
If you have more questions dont hesitate to ask its a free forum and information on this aspect of parts supply needs to be shared.

Is thier stock turnover really that slow? I can't believe they buy standard o rings that infrequently to end up with 10+ year old parts. Bulk purchase savings wouldn't be enough to make that worthwhile. Bespoke seats etc, possibly...

[iain/hsm]

Quiet day buddy?! As I said in my original post, I am very particular in not being personally sponsored so I can be absolutely honest when recommending equipment to students. Apeks have supported the Cave Camp event (which I run) in the past, providing draw prizes, some nice things for the campers' goody bags, and funding one of the social events. Totally transparent, not shady, and I reserve the right to be 100% honest in my advice on any equipment decisions made by my students.

Hi Lanny.

I know It's one thing accepting Apeks Marine free gifts then handing them out as a couple of freebe dive bags made in Vietnam for free to those mad enough to pay money to learn how to jam themselves up solid in a cave, in Mexico and then die. But its quite another not having a published retail price of the parts in question on this thread.

Maybe next year they will send you a couple more hot pants, in "cargo black" to go with your Tech Cave Dive Team Tee shirts for students if you keep up this act of fanboy number one, for them and for more free stuff, To go along with those really cheap spares kits you get.

Look I fully understand quote: "you reserve the right to be 100% honest in your advise on any equipment decisions made by your students"

Any more than I can advise how to use "tools" underwater to ensure that the other side will drown first and quietly before he bleeds to death.
But neither of us are of any use to this particular thread if we wander off topic.

Apeks Marine Spares Kits available in the UK at a fair and published retail price is pretty much all any of us are asking.

It is really too much to ask.

[simonhi99]

Apeks Marine Spares Kits available in the UK at a fair and published retail price is pretty much all any of us are asking.

As far as I know, Apeks Marine are no longer supplying kits from UK, they're now being shipped from France, and taking several weeks to arrive. Another excuse to up the prices and charge extra for shipping?

[iain/hsm]

Is thier stock turnover really that slow? I can't believe they buy standard o rings that infrequently to end up with 10+ year old parts. Bulk purchase savings wouldn't be enough to make that worthwhile. Bespoke seats etc, possibly...

No that is not what I said.

FYI and to answer just this specific misunderstanding

1. Apeks Marine buy around 10,000, O-rings of each size at a time.

2. From new they know both the compound (polymer) material used, the shore hardness, the batch number and the Cure Date (Date of manufacture)

3. Each batch is kept separate and the oldest batch sold or used first in production.

4. The QA (Quality Assurance) documentation of Apeks Marine has documented the allowable shelf life of each of the polymers used from new (in years)

5. If any material batch exceeds that documented Shelf Life it is isolated and disposed of.


Now by contrast you as "Jimmy Diver" roll up to your local grease ball Hydraulics shop looking for a couple of O-rings that fit your busted second stage with only the words "Do you have this in Viton" dont be surprised that the hydraulic spec 0-ring your sold can be up to and even over 10 years old before your greasy palms get to sweat all over them. And you still have no idea of the compound, batch, or date of manufacture.
Hence Ebay a great place to flog out of date or out of size O-rings to the broken hearted.

Remember "Beaver Sports" and those special green O-rings so out of spec you could see the joint line from the ancient tooling in China they used to make with.

Further being forced down the route of either using your LDS under the shelf or Ebay or the German equivalent of "Kraut's R Us" to buy our spares kits at some point it grinds the gears if you get my drift. And opens up the possibility of either dive shop under the shelf or eBay or Krauts R US making up the spares kits from old parts and stuff found dropped on the LDS floor and stuffed into old empty APEKS MARINE GENUINE PARTS KIT zip lock bags.

Hope it cleared up the misunderstanding.