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  1. #33021
    Established TDF Member steelemonkey's Avatar
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    How can B&Q sell an angle grinder for £20? Can't have too many toys in the shed.
    Paul.
    If God had meant us to breathe underwater, he would have given us larger bank balances.
    Human beings were invented by water as a means of moving itself from one place to another.

  2. #33022
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelemonkey View Post
    How can B&Q sell an angle grinder for £20? Can't have too many toys in the shed.
    Though ignoring minimum wages, health and safety, and environmental rules. And exporting jobs and money to China.

    Goodness how much a British Leyland built angle grinder would cost or last though.

  3. #33023
    Pedantic Pig Divemouse's Avatar
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    This is the first of our diveweeks for the year that has people coming in from other areas. Not diveable from today on and 6-8m waves on shore by Friday.
    Definitely don't doubt Dawn - not if you value your life

  4. #33024
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Though ignoring minimum wages, health and safety, and environmental rules. And exporting jobs and money to China.

    Goodness how much a British Leyland built angle grinder would cost or last though.
    £3.34 of that £20 is Vat for the chancellor, B&Q are not selling it for fun.
    Probably owes B&Q less than a tenner.

    The B&Q ones are all whizz and no power, useful as disposable tools.

    They do at least work out of the box, which you can guarantee that a BL one would not.

    Black and decker, used to demand open book accounts from their suppliers, and a maximum profit margin on any supplied component of ~2% iirc.
    They had to export the jobs, there was no bugger left here who would deal with them.

  5. #33025
    Established TDF Member nigel hewitt's Avatar
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    First day out on the bike since I fitted the DynoJet Power Commander 5.
    A box that tweaks my fuel injectors timing and duration.
    Just a quick blip round in a circle.
    More power? No clue as I never went out of a limit but that's the Sussex coast...
    Did it feel different?
    Well maybe.
    If I was test riding a bike where all the engine internals had been lightened that would be it.
    If I say 'the acceleration in neutral is staggering' you probably understand what I mean.
    The acceleration in the lower gears, all I could use today, is unchanged at the usual 'suicidal insanity' level.
    And it made the Translogic quick shifter even more of a deal but I'm only just getting used to that toy.

    Oh well. How wonderful to be back on the bike after over two months of lay-off.
    How I love the Fireblade's 'you just look at where you want to go, I'll steer' attitude.
    The problem, close around here, is finding places that offer an excuse to slow down so I can speed up again.
    And I got home just before it tipped down. Bonus.

    Pity the ABS light is flashing.
    Helium, because I'm worth it.
    Waterboarding at Guantanamo Bay sounded like a radical holiday opportunity until I looked it up.

  6. #33026
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel hewitt View Post

    How I love the Fireblade's 'you just look at where you want to go, I'll steer' attitude.

    Best bike I have ever ridden, was a Suzuki GSXR 400R (baby slingshot); it had a LOT of Yoshimura bits on it, but the handling was telepathic.

    You looked at a corner, and it went around.

    I was reluctant, and glad to hand the keys back; it would have got me into a lot of trouble.

  7. #33027
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Though ignoring minimum wages, health and safety, and environmental rules. And exporting jobs and money to China.
    Whilst I do agree on these points the primary reason China is the workshop of the world is that energy and infrastructure costs are cheap in comparison to western Europe and the UK in particular.

    The unit labour cost is not that relevant in this day and age as much of the world's throwaway shite is made by a machine. The UK - for example - has just committed to the most expensive electricity in the world for hundreds of years by commissioning the white elephant that is our new nuclear power plant. The PM at the time, one T May could have said no but did not.

    Forty years or more back we (well the government) moved to a service economy policy that favoured banks and other shysters rather than metal bashing. UK industry has been in decline ever since. British management is utterly shit, probably the worst in the world and only companies where overseas influence and management have been the driving force have tended to do well. Nissan for example.

    In a last desperate attempt to get rid of successful companies like Nissan a bunch of twats voted to leave the EU and thus remove one of our most profitable nearby markets. Thus far this is having reasonable success and we have lost Honda and are in the process of losing Ford Bridgend and Vauxhall/Renault.

    Making something like an angle grinder is quite simple and generally would mean getting components such as the electric motor from another supplier unless the manufacturer is big enough to make motors in its own right. Economies of scale then account for the low price. The UK failed because it chipped away at the small sub contractors and suppliers that were UK based. It became more profitable to buy in foreign goods and rebrand them than actually make them. With each iteration the market for the smaller manufacturer fell and they in turn became unprofitable and closed down. This is often known as the "salami slicing principle" or "death by a thousand cuts". The UK has a long and proud history of failure in this respect. At a certain point one passes the point of no return, maybe what 10-15 years back?

    People have consistently voted for this so it should be no surprise to anyone. As consumers Brits really hate patriotism, preferring German cars and Japanese motorbikes thus putting out of business the handful of actual top performers. Likewise we buy Danish bacon, French mineral water and Italian clothes. We like shit Australian beer and piss water from the 'states that really should not be called "beer" at all if we are honest.

    Whenever possible we like to accelerate the decline. If offered a "green new deal" for example we prefer to elect a serial liar that is incapable of adult behaviour and then think it is funny as people die. We are more annoyed that someone speaks Polish on the bus than we are concerned about our kids' future.

    B&Q can sell an angle grinder for twenty quid because that is what is worth and costs to make, ship, market and tax. It comes from China because that is where people want it to come from. If you go on eBay it will be cheaper still and be shipped from the manufacturer, thus putting out of business the minimum wage, shit working conditions of the B&Q nonsenses that old people seem attracted to. With the retail sector gone the only job for the unskilled will be petty crime and drug dealing.

    The future looks bright.

  8. #33028
    Established TDF Member Energy58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    £3.34 of that £20 is Vat for the chancellor, B&Q are not selling it for fun.
    Probably owes B&Q less than a tenner.

    The B&Q ones are all whizz and no power, useful as disposable tools.

    They do at least work out of the box, which you can guarantee that a BL one would not.

    Black and decker, used to demand open book accounts from their suppliers, and a maximum profit margin on any supplied component of ~2% iirc.
    They had to export the jobs, there was no bugger left here who would deal with them.
    Their Gross Margin is about 36% which is fairly typical, profit is about 10%

    So of £20 the Government got about £4 in VAT, the manufacturer got about £10, Kingfisher's owners got about £2 (on which they pay tax) and the rest went on salaries, overheads, shoplifting etc.

  9. #33029
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Energy58 View Post
    Their Gross Margin is about 36% which is fairly typical, profit is about 10%

    So of £20 the Government got about £4 in VAT, the manufacturer got about £10, Kingfisher's owners got about £2 (on which they pay tax) and the rest went on salaries, overheads, shoplifting etc.
    Reasonable ball park. So of the tenner you also need to remove the shipping and distribution costs, import duties and finance charges. The critical price to examine is the ex-works price. If the UK could make an item at or around the same ex-works price as the Chinese item then we could compete on final retail price.

    The average Chinese industrial wage is about 8 grand a year compared to what 20 or so for UK. Ish. Let's do simple maths not hard maths so say UK unit labour costs are three times Chinese ones. The issue is what is the unit labour cost in minutes to make an angle grinder (including packaging and boxing ready for ex-works shipping)?

    It is not an item I am familiar with manufacturing but if you take the tenner and work back the manufacturers' cannot have more than what 20 minutes labour time in the overall price? It will be assembly I would imagine, the motor is machine wound and the other components machine made so just bolt together and box.

    20 minute at £9/hr versus the same at £3/hr. Or three quid versus one pound. So are we really saying that a UK made device at an additional fiver retail is so unattractive? Maybe. As I said UK consumers don't give a shit and just want cheap cheap cheap. No need for the Chinese to break labour laws or environmental regulations or anything else.

    Here you go - £11.66 (plus postage)
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Angle-Gri...Condition=1000

    Wholesale https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...77d0vUdMnl&s=p
    Last edited by Chrisch; 24-08-2020 at 03:30 PM.

  10. #33030
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    The average Chinese industrial wage is about 8 grand a year compared to what 20 or so for UK. Ish.
    Assuming this is the case (although one would expect the wage to be lower than that), what are the average working hours per week?

    Now 35h a week in the UK - probably less with everyone working from home.

    So not only is Chinese labour cheaper per hour, but they (probably) work longer hours and (probably) have fewer fringe benefits (pension, health, etc.). Would expect taxes to be lower too, and the taxes on employing labour, bureaucracy, etc.


 

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