Electric vehicles - dead technology or not?

[Wibs]

Word salad kept for prosperity.
So much wrong or badly misinformed in this post.

GS heat pumps are probably the most efficient cost effective way of heating a house.
If you’ve proof of all these lies - list them here.

Why does it cost many times more to install heat pumps than gas/oil boilers?

How much do heat pumps consume in the winter months compared with summer months, e.g. for hot water, showers, baths, washing, etc.?

How long does it take for a heat pump to warm up a cold home? e.g. you leave the heating off during the day and it comes on 30 mins before you arrive home.

Comparing running costs, which is more expensive: heat pumps or gas/oil boilers?

How many "homes" can have a ground source heat pump installed? Obviously it's fine if you've a large field and lake, but not when you've an average sized garden -- which is nobody with a Barratt home which has a back yard, nor a flat. Is that 10% of homes can have ground source heat pumps? 5%?

What's the efficiency of an air sourced heat pump in comparison with a gas/oil boiler? Running costs again.



As I said above, the sums don't add up. The installation costs are ridiculously high for heat pumps -- the cost of many years of running costs for oil/gas boilers.
The running costs don't make financial sense either. Maybe 40 years in the future, but that is not now. Worse still, you're committed to buying electricity at the point of use at some unknown pricing. Oil can be bought any time during a year, there's seasonal fluctuations in price.

[notdeadyet]

How many "homes" can have a ground source heat pump installed?... which is nobody with a Barratt home which has a back yard, nor a flat...

Exactly the same applies to oil-fired central heating. Where are you putting a bunded oil tank in a Barratt home (assuming you actually want to be able to use the garden) or an apartment?

[Chrisch]

Which? have a reputation as independent and reliable and they have a heatpump guide online - https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/grou...s-aYYGN4A4NFpB

Our oil boiler will be replaced today as the old one is broken. (Garden is big enough and then there is the field behind that if you need it).

The article shows the efficiency and gas is piss poor. The problem is therefore that fossil fuel is generally way too cheap as there is no recovery of environmental costs. That said it is hard to see how to change the current padadigm given that so very many people are already skint.

The one big thing that annoys me is that the oil boiler also does the hot water and the stupid thing runs when the water in the boiler cools even if you are not in the house or on holiday. It will fire up several times in the night for no good reason. The heating engineer assures me the new one will do the same. What a load of stupid old shit.

No idea about costs as I am not paying for it Heating engineer tells me the pumps (air/ground) do wear out the compressor frequently so maintainance costs might be an issue.

Thermal energy stores seem to me to be the way forward. https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/adv...energy-stores/

[notdeadyet]

I'm not on mains gas so on propane in tanks. I hardly use it. Shower is electric. I boil a kettle to wash the dishes. Hob is electric. I rarely use the oven. Wood stove for the 5 months of the year it's cold enough to need heating. I could live without a boiler and not even notice it.

[Wibs]

The one big thing that annoys me is that the oil boiler also does the hot water and the stupid thing runs when the water in the boiler cools even if you are not in the house or on holiday. It will fire up several times in the night for no good reason. The heating engineer assures me the new one will do the same.

In a 'standard' central heating and hot water system, there's the small insulated storage tank containing ~100 litres of hot water. This is heated up -- actually topped up -- with hot water from the boiler twice a day. This is more than enough for a normal set of ablutions, cooking, cleaning and the like.

If going away, even for the weekend, we turn the hot water off so if we're not there, the boiler's not used. There's a thermostat which will turn the heating on in the house should the temperature drop below 5 degrees so the house doesn't freeze up (this isn't that common in 10 months of the year).

Odd that your plumber has set your controller to run your hot water continuously. Ours is set to run twice per day for 1h which in effect means about 20 minutes twice a day. It never comes on at night unless we leave the heating on in the depths of winter -- set to 15 degrees or thereabouts when its really cold.

Our oil boiler will be replaced today as the old one is broken. (Garden is big enough and then there is the field behind that if you need it).

Definitely not scoring points here, but it's interesting that you've come to the same conclusion as me about the economics of household heating. Oil/gas will need to be many many times more expensive before heat pumps are anywhere near worth the investment for an existing "average" house.

[jturner]

Odd that your plumber has set your controller to run your hot water continuously. Ours is set to run twice per day for 1h which in effect means about 20 minutes twice a day. It never comes on at night unless we leave the heating on in the depths of winter -- set to 15 degrees or thereabouts when its really cold.

Our boiler is a gas combi one and it's all "heating on demand" for both hot water and central heating. No storage tank at all. Apparently, there are electric versions of these too now.

[Chrisch]

Our boiler is a gas combi one and it's all "heating on demand" for both hot water and central heating. No storage tank at all. Apparently, there are electric versions of these too now.

Yeah ours is a combi also and as best I understand it you cannot turn off the water. Also if going away the thermostat goes to 5C to stop frost damage (you can of course turn off the electric supply).

[dwhitlow]

It does seem your skewed version of reality is somewhat at odds to my experience of the world. Are you actually from the 3rd Rock from the Sun, or were you expelled from a galaxy far, far, away? The latter option does seem quite understandable

In a 'standard' central heating and hot water system, there's the small insulated storage tank containing ~100 litres of hot water. This is heated up -- actually topped up -- with hot water from the boiler twice a day. This is more than enough for a normal set of ablutions, cooking, cleaning and the like.

On the basis of your (unfounded) assertion it seems we now live in a non-standard house. Previous, we had a non-standard flat in London. I both cases there was no tank and a combi boiler heated up water on demand.

Whilst we do use the hot water for heating, washing, and cleaning, we don't use it for cooking. That seems an odd way of cooking!

Our previous house had a 'standard' central heating and hot water system, but it seems our usage was not normal, as the boiler was often asked to provide more hot water. Perhaps having six people living in one house was also not normal?

If going away, even for the weekend, we turn the hot water off so if we're not there, the boiler's not used. There's a thermostat which will turn the heating on in the house should the temperature drop below 5 degrees so the house doesn't freeze up (this isn't that common in 10 months of the year).

Odd that your plumber has set your controller to run your hot water continuously. Ours is set to run twice per day for 1h which in effect means about 20 minutes twice a day. It never comes on at night unless we leave the heating on in the depths of winter -- set to 15 degrees or thereabouts when its really cold.

You are definitely not scoring points here, but it's interesting that you've come to the same conclusion as me about the economics of household heating. Oil/gas will need to be many many times more expensive before heat pumps are anywhere near worth the investment for an existing "average" house.

You are correct, you are definitely not scoring points, other than those you score against yourself!

Your 'reasoning' is reminiscent of the posts I see on local Facebook groups, and it is fascinating to watch!

Do keep it up!!

[John63]

Yeah ours is a combi also and as best I understand it you cannot turn off the water. Also if going away the thermostat goes to 5C to stop frost damage (you can of course turn off the electric supply).

Seems odd. Don’t know if oil combo functions differently to gas combi but I’m sure there will be someone on here who knows.

Ours is gas combi and has options ( as far as I can remember)

1. Preheat for water - boiler fires periodically and keeps a small amount of water at temperature so that when you turn on a tap it’s virtually instant hot water

2. No preheat- boiler doesn’t intermittently fire or preheat. Takes a bit longer when you turn the tap but not heating and cooling throughout the day.

Ours has preheat set to off.

[Wibs]

It does seem your skewed version of reality is somewhat at odds to my experience of the world. Are you actually from the 3rd Rock from the Sun, or were you expelled from a galaxy far, far, away? The latter option does seem quite understandable

Thank you Dave. As you well know, we are all made of stardust out of supernovae. Well, that's what the so-called scientists say anyway (taking the piss OK).

Ours is gas combi and has options ( as far as I can remember)

1. Preheat for water - boiler fires periodically and keeps a small amount of water at temperature so that when you turn on a tap it’s virtually instant hot water

2. No preheat- boiler doesn’t intermittently fire or preheat. Takes a bit longer when you turn the tap but not heating and cooling throughout the day.

Ours has preheat set to off.

That could explain why Chris' boiler might be coming on at night.