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  1. #401
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    And in the name of religion, For the hate in our soul
    For the blind and the sick in the heart, War has taken its toll
    If only you could feel the tears and pain, In the eyes of the world.
    Glover/Blackmore "The Eyes of the World"

  2. #402
    Established WTF Member Spirit of Guernsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    And factor in hanging around for hours waiting for the thing to charge? Or stress from range anxiety? Or stress from knowing that you're consuming electricity from an overstressed grid, especially in the winter?
    Mine takes 30 seconds a couple of times per week, charging at night when there is an overcapacity.
    There are four varieties in society: the lovers, the ambitious, observers and fools. The fools are the happiest.
    Hippolyte Taine Ė French critic and historian (1828-93)

  3. #403
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    In Scotland the objections are all in Tory-held areas, or occasionally their bed-wetting compatriots the LibDems. There are a few projects proposed to allow renewable energy to be exported but Westminster has done its best to oppose them, either openly but usually by agitating locally. 90% of Scotland's energy comes from renewables now and production is only going to go up. The tories would rather sabotage the export of energy to England than risk the renewables industry being an economic asset for the independence campaign. It's no coincidence that the biggest concentration of Conservative voters is around Aberdeen or that they've been bribed by promises of North Sea expansion.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  4. #404
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Most charging points are pretty quick. Your "hours" is hyperbole. Nonetheless it is much faster to fill up with liquid fuel; unless there is a queue and you get some shopping and fart about on the phone for a bit and all the other things people do.

    I think we are all agreed that for a long journey the current battery technology is sub-optimal. It is possible that as things improve over the next few years the situation will improve and liquid hydrocarbn fuel will fall out of favour with the vast majority of users.
    Actually going to disagree on the later part with real world experience - my boss had to drive from Oxford to Glasgow last weekend for uni tours. Tesla dual motor. Put the destination in and it determined the charge locations based on current and future charges. Apparently the break for charging 20 minutes every 2.5-3 hours of driving was both appreciated and needed.
    Arrived fresh and really committed to the long distance driving on the Tesla.

    No range anxiety (well anymore than the average smuckís worry about running out of fuel)

    Apparently single pedal driving (the regen is actually a decent brake) is just awesome

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.

  5. #405
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Actually going to disagree on the later part with real world experience - my boss had to drive from Oxford to Glasgow last weekend for uni tours. Tesla dual motor. Put the destination in and it determined the charge locations based on current and future charges. Apparently the break for charging 20 minutes every 2.5-3 hours of driving was both appreciated and needed.
    Arrived fresh and really committed to the long distance driving on the Tesla.

    No range anxiety (well anymore than the average smuck’s worry about running out of fuel)

    Apparently single pedal driving (the regen is actually a decent brake) is just awesome

    B
    I had a few LPG cars when that was (allegedly) the fuel of the future and range was similar. Usually needed refilled after 2.5-3hrs. It was nice to have an enforced break but also could be a pain in the arse when things didn't go as expected and 20min turned into 40. It could really mount up on a long journey. Range anxiety was a thing at first but (amazingly) planning ahead tended to solve that. I can't imagine EV's are much different. Probably better, this was early 2000's so pre- phones with Google maps and you kept an A4 printout of LPG stations in the car instead. People invent problems for themselves, it's not that hard to work around. I wonder sometimes how people cope with a real challenge.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  6. #406
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
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    Electric vehicles - dead technology or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by notdeadyet View Post
    I had a few LPG cars when that was (allegedly) the fuel of the future and range was similar. Usually needed refilled after 2.5-3hrs. It was nice to have an enforced break but also could be a pain in the arse when things didn't go as expected and 20min turned into 40. It could really mount up on a long journey. Range anxiety was a thing at first but (amazingly) planning ahead tended to solve that. I can't imagine EV's are much different. Probably better, this was early 2000's so pre- phones with Google maps and you kept an A4 printout of LPG stations in the car instead. People invent problems for themselves, it's not that hard to work around. I wonder sometimes how people cope with a real challenge.
    Yep the day job (mscpís ) means all evís and charging is top deck - the only way to extinguish an ev car fire is 100% submersion for 24 hrs. - thereís some fuel for the flerfers of the convo. But then Belgium banned all lpg cars from mscpís - note Belgium, not the whole of Europe, because sovereignty. Iíve just brought a petrol as it was the wifeís choice - she worried about the infrastructure with her 2 mile a day commute. Iíd say the fossil fuel lobby had their moneys worth. My next car will be Tesla

    B
    Last edited by Barrygoss; 27-09-2023 at 04:58 AM.
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.

  7. #407
    Tofu eating wokerato Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Actually going to disagree on the later part with real world experience - my boss had to drive from Oxford to Glasgow last weekend for uni tours. Tesla dual motor. Put the destination in and it determined the charge locations based on current and future charges. Apparently the break for charging 20 minutes every 2.5-3 hours of driving was both appreciated and needed.
    Arrived fresh and really committed to the long distance driving on the Tesla...
    I am only now just beginning to take an interest in the BEV but as best I understand it the Tesla is pretty much one of the better vehicles? It is one of the most expensive. I wonder if cheaper vehicles would get the same feedback? That's not to knock the idea, far from it, just to point out not everyone is going to get the same experience.

    My work commute is short (7mi e/way) and car use minimal. A BEV would make sense for day to day stuff. The van is better for moving mountain bikes, trials bikes and dive kit. Electric vans are not so good right now and mega bucks. I am seriously thinking about a BEV in the next couple of years as retirement gets nearer and I can charge up off a PV array "for free". I hope that the new battery tec comes out in '27 as Toyota are promising and old Li-Ion cars become very cheap. I am not a lucky person so this may not work out as I hope
    There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and Tory corruption and I am not sure about the universe.
    With apologies to Albert Einstein.

  8. #408
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Actually going to disagree on the later part with real world experience - my boss had to drive from Oxford to Glasgow last weekend for uni tours. Tesla dual motor. Put the destination in and it determined the charge locations based on current and future charges. Apparently the break for charging 20 minutes every 2.5-3 hours of driving was both appreciated and needed.
    Arrived fresh and really committed to the long distance driving on the Tesla.

    No range anxiety (well anymore than the average smuck’s worry about running out of fuel)

    Apparently single pedal driving (the regen is actually a decent brake) is just awesome

    B
    Last wednesday, left Wrexham at 4.20 am, drove to Dover (275 miles non-stop) 4hrs 40.
    Ferry.
    Calais to Gutersloh 6 hrs 50 (horrible traffic) one stop, to run around the car and feed a toll booth (I have a tag for France).
    668 miles in the day.
    Return had another 6hr 45 run to Calais, from a pretty little village I cant remember the name of, that was next to a town called Wankum..........
    Again, that was the non-stop after the fuel stop.
    dover home, one stop for fuel, 20miles from home due to range anxiety, as the gauge was in the red with a range of 10 miles on the computer.
    Wrexham-Hanover 1468 miles return, 39.2mpg(petrol).

    I had a diesel hybrid, interesting car and I liked it, no boot (full of batteries), crap on diesel, crap range on electric.
    0-60 in 6.9 and would kick the back out with a heavy foot on the electric.
    Realistically, the worst of all worlds, but an interesting vehicle; especially if you like thinking about driving.
    Using the regen to extend range, balancing demand against throttle, reading traffic ahead.

    Infrastructure is ok if you head South and East of me, North or West and EV is still a poor choice.

    I actually fancy a Polestar, if the infrastructure gets sorted.

  9. #409
    Last of the Mohicans gobfish1's Avatar
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    None diver as of 2018.

  10. #410
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    I am only now just beginning to take an interest in the BEV but as best I understand it the Tesla is pretty much one of the better vehicles? It is one of the most expensive. I wonder if cheaper vehicles would get the same feedback? That's not to knock the idea, far from it, just to point out not everyone is going to get the same experience.

    My work commute is short (7mi e/way) and car use minimal. A BEV would make sense for day to day stuff. The van is better for moving mountain bikes, trials bikes and dive kit. Electric vans are not so good right now and mega bucks. I am seriously thinking about a BEV in the next couple of years as retirement gets nearer and I can charge up off a PV array "for free". I hope that the new battery tec comes out in '27 as Toyota are promising and old Li-Ion cars become very cheap. I am not a lucky person so this may not work out as I hope
    I have thought about something similar however there is no way I can make things stack up in any sensible way.

    Solar PV - I have a hipped roof so only about a quarter is south facing. Using the calculators available (which account for poor generation potential up here), I reckon on losing approx £2k on a 10 year period (based on install/maintenance against total generated and near full utilisation).
    Battery - would let me optimise the storage of the excess.
    Car - WFH 4 days so minimal use of the car with a 30 mile round trip 1-2 times a week.

    Based on a BEV being anything from £3-5K more expensive, I am losing no matter which way I stack it. Green would be good but not losing money is better


 
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