The sea is getting the short straw with climate change

[Mark Chase]

Everybody is underestimating the impact. And the speed at which it can change.

Where is your ACTUAL evidence of the catastrophic impact of global warming? Even the pro-climate investment IPCC report makes no such claims. It actually debunks a lot of the outrageous claims made by the Climate Cultists.

Mass disasters, weather events causing deaths??? Since the 1930s there has been a 99.7% reduction in fatalities due to natural disasters. These are hard facts not scaremongering speculation.

The current predictions are based on a mathematical interpretation of fluid dynamic models of how the atmosphere works

There's currently a $1,000,000 prize on offer for anyone who can prove this approach actually works. No one has claimed it The theory remains just that, a theory and yet we base trillions of dollars of climate change investment on it

But this is just a distraction. The point is can the planet cope with climate change? The answer is of course it can we have done it ever since the earth was a rock rolling around in the cosmos. The problem is now we assume we can keep the earth static in its current state that we have adapted to. We can't. We will have to adapt.

C02 levels were hitting a critical low prior to the industrialization of the planet. Now they are in a more comfortable zone to promote the growth of plants. That's a good thing. We are concerned about the cost and disturbance of adapting to the new environmental challenges but in truth, we have the science to cope and the cost of adaptation would be a tiny fraction of the predicted cost of climate-halting investment.

Sea levels are far more influenced by the movement of continents than they are by climate. The climate impact alone on sea levels is tiny.


The IPCC report suggests that sea levels could possibly rise by 1.1m by 2100

For 95% of the planet, this will make no apparent impact. We are again told the Maldives will disappear as they are 1.0m above sea level. But let's face it we have heard all that before

The previous Climate Change estimates in the late 1980s suggested the Maldives would disappear by the year 2010

In September 1988, the Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported a “gradual rise in average sea level is threatening to completely cover this Indian Ocean nation of 1196 small islands within the next 30 years,”

This was a spring board to investment in climate change.

What actually happened was absolutely nothing. In fact the Maldives are now getting bigger.

Its bullshit like this and Gretta Thumberg 10 years ago saying we have 5 years left that has caused this totally unreasonable panic to grip us all.

And don't you dare stand up and say it's not true? You will be sacked, defunded, de-platformed

Debate is banned under the threat of personnel ruination. This is a truly sorry state for a so-called free society.

In order to get to the truth you need to refer to people like Richard Lindzen. He can talk because he's retired,

Richard Siegmund Lindzen (born February 8, 1940) is an American atmospheric physicist known for his work in the dynamics of the middle atmosphere, atmospheric tides, and ozone photochemistry. He has published more than 200 scientific papers and books. From 1983 until his retirement in 2013, he was Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He was a lead author of Chapter 7, "Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks," of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Third Assessment Report on climate change. He has disputed the scientific consensus on climate change and criticizes what he has called "climate alarmism."


This is one of his more in-depth talks on the subject.

Its an hour long but we all care so much no doubt we will all watch it in full

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOKElp_jGLQ


Then there's the sheer economic issue. I have absolutely nothing but wholehearted support for investment in a reduction of pollution but we spending the money in the wrong places.

One simple truth about the environment. If you want people to achieve it you need global participation. If you want global participation you need to lift the whole globe out of poverty FIRST.

Lomberg is the voice of rational assessment of the cost of the current path we are on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otsJno55J0g&t=1984s

[Mark Chase]

[QUOTE]

Mark, It's hard to take you seriously when you spout bollocks like this. It's James Inhofe stupid, and that's about as stupid as it gets.

Which is a shame, because I by and large agree with much that you wrote afterwards. I don't agree with all of it by a long chalk, but you have arguable points.

Please reference your proof this is bollocks or is it just a personal opinion? Much better to offer debate IMHO but obviously most don't like scrutiny of the facts. I have tried to reference some of the issues in my previous post.

Especially while they offshore their carbon production to poorer countries.

Exactly, its bullshit. Does moving the issue from the developed countries to the undeveloped countries solve the issue? No it just allows for statistics to show carbon reductions LOCALY which means absolutely nothing.

These are, obviously, existential problems, but so is rising sea levels, as farm land is ruined and / or disappears.

As ever, but how many will be displaced and or die?

Same answer so I lumped them together.

Taking the current top 10 causes of death in the world 55.4 million people died from them in one single year in a study in 2019.

BUT globally and in the west the 1 & 2 causes were heart disease and stroke, by some considerable margin

In low to middle income countries heart disease and stroke are knocked hard down to 4th

Neonatal conditions

Lower respiratory infections

Dirrheoa


These are the top 3

Add in Tuberculosis and Malaria and over 2.5 million people die every year in low to middle-income countries.


The impacts of global warming like rising sea levels (if the sea rises 1.1m in its worst case prediction) is seen an issue for you, and will be generational. We are talking 100s of years. in 100 years at the current rate, over 250 million people will have died prematurely from these easily treatable conditions.

Thats greater than the entire population of Pakistan wiped out for no good reason

The difference is that, though there have been cyclical climate changes throughout history (with just one catastrophic exception I can think off) they've been natural and slow. This one's down to us and super-fast.

Thats not true. There have been similar spikes and similar speed massive drops over the millennia caused mainly by volcanic and seismic activity but also by solar activity and planetary alignment conditions. The alarmist charts seem to go back to the 1900s some the 1950s showing ups and downs in temperature and C02 levels but a fairly consistent ceiling but in the last 10,000 years C02 has risen by 280ppm to its current level of around 425ppm

Historical highs go up to around 9000 over the millennia. The last 10,000 years have been a massive low point in C02 concentrations on planet Earth and have significantly changed our environment. Only 50 million years ago the Arctic was a tropical paradise.

We are currently (despite the recent spike) at historic low C02 levels not seen on this earth for 300 million years.

What caused the C02 to drop from 9000ppm to sub 400ppm? Well at 9000 plants grew like mad because Co2 is plant food, so that is a major factor, and there was a significant drop in volcanic activity. The BIG controller of C02 is the sea and the evolution of crustations extracting billions of tones of C02 from the sea to form exoskeleton is believed to be a significant impact along with algal sea blooms which eat C02 at an alarming rate. Algal blooms in our oceans are nowhere near as significant now as they had been in the past due to low C02 levels. Fact is the planet was consuming C02 faster than it was producing it. Then we came along and fixed that.

Everybody seems obsessed with burning fossil fuels as the primary cause of C02 production that we can address but they forget other MASSIVE contributes like Cement Production (Ironic as this is what wiped out the Aztecs) and the burning of biomass

Now the burning of biomass is one of the things we CAN cheaply address by lifting people out of poverty and providing them with cleaner (not clean) energy sources.

The elephant in the room is our dependency on meat and dairy.

It is estimated that China's massive economic development, the construction of buildings, and the commonplace adoption of beef and dairy products in the last 25 years have totally wiped out any and all advancement in C02 reduction globally.

Again, I mainly agree, but think you're underestimating the global impact of a warming planet.

I would suggest I am not underestimating it at all but instead, I am looking at the biggest bang for the buck ways to address issues and accepting EVERYTHING has a price and the price of pretending we can impact C02 is massively too high. Adaptation is cheaper and more efficient.



You want some reality slaps?

The worlds shipping transportation industry emits on average between 2010 and 2019 650million tones of C02 per year by burning crude oil (peeking in 2019 at 714million tones)

Thats about DOUBLE the TOTAL co2 emissions of the UK

Yet we do trade deals with Australia in 2022 to ship us meet we could grow at home????????


In 2020 the oil industry created an estimated 210 million tones of C02 by shipping oil by oil tanker.

The oil industry made PROFITS of over $100 billion in the first quarter of 2022

Yet rather than insist all oil tankers are converted to Nuclear power (perfectly doable its been done) which they can OBVIOUSLY afford to do, governments suggest landlords it air source heat pumps and electric boilers and we all switch to electric cars which in truth cost more in C02 o produce than they are likely to have during their working lives.


The world is not flat people,

No go build the pyre and prepare to burn the heretic who said that.

[Mark Chase]

Took me a while but this link is fantastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YtxH71xhiA

[Paul Evans]

Proof, just the tip of the ever shrinking iceberg.

https://phys.org/news/2023-04-statis...s-regions.html

I've been looking for a graph, you do like a good graph



You see we were heading into another ice age, the cycle was right, planet tilt, Suns activity, all coming together at just the right time and then we came along with our cleverness, look at the end of the graph!

Ironically I found that here;

https://kids.frontiersin.org/article...ym.2022.668763

Try it



Discredited and a verified liar ;

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ard_S._Lindzen

A more balanced view of what has happened and where we are headed next, and no climate models, just core samples, old fashioned enough for you?

https://today.tamu.edu/2021/06/14/an...earchers%20say.


Going back any further than the current layout of the plates is moot. 800 hundsred thousand is the limit due to Plate tectonics and Entropy. You have to go back to the Cambrian to get half way to the co2 figure you quoted. Where did you get 9000 from? good god man that didn't even happen at the PT boundary when the sea was 40c at the equator, co2 wasn't the problem, methane was!

But hay, Google will tell you what you want to hear, as well as a more balanced overview of where we actually are.

Oh Mark.... Oh Dear....

Looks who's No 1

https://theweek.com/articles/491378/...-changed-minds

I did giggle

However your comments on capitalism, the awful imbalance in the world, lack of basic (Cheap) medication, clean water. You are 100% right, its shameful. And we have all contributed to it, shame on us.

[Paul Evans]

Took me a while but this link is fantastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YtxH71xhiA

For balance

http://www.lomborg-errors.dk/



Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[MarkP]

https://phys.org/news/2023-04-statis...s-regions.html

Discredited and a verified liar ;

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ard_S._Lindzen

I wouldn't bother if I were you. Arguing with Mark C about climate is like challenging a moon landing conspiracist. He cherry picks whatever he fancies, then claims debate's being stifled.

As I've written before, it's a shame, as he used to make useful contributions re. diving.

I suppose that one has to believe in shite if one chooses to live in what has become a despotic theocracy, playing golf on unsustainably green, er, greens. If I had a a substantial amount of time and will I'd try to unpick the cognitive dissonance that he uses to justify his lifestyle, but I'm just not that interested.

I use ad hominem to save time; not engaging fully with some people, despite the inevitable whinging that follows, is remarkably liberating.

[gobfish1]

suppose that one has to believe in shite if one chooses to live in what has become a despotic theocracy, playing golf on unsustainably green, er, greens. If I had a a substantial amount of time and will I'd try to unpick the cognitive dissonance that he uses to justify his lifestyle.

That's totally out of feeking order

[MarkP]

That's totally out of feeking order

You'll be astonished to find out I disagree.

He's chosen to live in Erdoğan's Turkey, where lawyers and journalists are now routinely imprisoned and murdered, as are sections of its population.

I recall he plays golf. If I'm wrong about that I'll apologise and withdraw my comment.

What's out of order about that?

[Paul Evans]

Its only when inequality is so bad that it effects the developed world that people start takin a bit of notice.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...rite-the-rules

[Paul Evans]

You'll be astonished to find out I disagree.

He's chosen to live in Erdoğan's Turkey, where lawyers and journalists are now routinely imprisoned and murdered, as are sections of its population.

I recall he plays golf. If I'm wrong about that I'll apologise and withdraw my comment.

What's out of order about that?

I have quite happily taken the Riyal and the Dirham at source, you'd better put me on your shit list as well Mark!