Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 76
  1. #41
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Room 531
    Posts
    7,765
    Likes (Given)
    1832
    Likes (Received)
    6004
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    Anyone ever been to the alternative energy centre near Machynlleth ?

    Basically a bunch of brummie rejects in a near hippie commune spouting "green" solutions; and an excellent example of what you need to give up for them to have half a chance of working.

    The UK is not a subsistence farming economy.
    I've been, it's a nice place but I totally agree. Same at Findhorn, it's a retreat for very affluent middle class drop-outs all very eager to lecture you on how to live.

    And that's pretty much the problem on a wider scale. You've got the affluent telling the poor that they need to turn their fridges off because their holiday in The Maldives is in danger. Whether that's the west patronising Africa, or some dickhead Guardian reader talking down to the rest of the public. If you're sitting in your half a million house with most of the mortgage paid then just slap a few solar panels on, stick a heat pump in, tell everyone you're now plant-based and buying a Tesla. Then shit on everyone else for driving a ten year old diesel that they can't afford to replace for another five years, eating whatever is on offer in Asda and dreading the winter bills coming.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  2. #42
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Room 531
    Posts
    7,765
    Likes (Given)
    1832
    Likes (Received)
    6004
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    I'm fairly sure it is the same price in other countries.
    If the public are paying back EDF for building it, then yes, nuclear power is expensive. If it is part of the national infrastructure then that's totally different. Did you notice paying for the Iraq war?

    I'm not a fan of nationalisation but I do think basic infrastructure should be a state responsibility. If the state can own floating nuclear reactors then even for the fuckwits in Westminster owning one that doesn't move should be easy.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  3. #43
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    West Lothian
    Posts
    2,730
    Likes (Given)
    1115
    Likes (Received)
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilPage View Post
    Expense isn't the issue. Everything's expensive - including fossil fuel. The reason fossil is still a thing is because it has the lowest cost per MWh. It's not the input cost that's the thing - it's the generated output.


    That's the beauty of the gen4+ designs - most of them are non-proliferatory. You're absolutely right to point out the effect of the various nuclear treaties as being the reason we're not currently enjoying virtually free energy from thorium (or other) molten salt reactors, however. The original POC was built at MIT in the 50s, but the project was shut down as it didn't fit with the americans' supply chain for weapons grade enriched uranium. The hope in the industry is that success in New Brunswick will provide the impetus to remove the legal barriers to nuclear power development.


    The hard bit's done (R&D, prototyping, permits, etc.) "all" that remains is to actually build the thing & get it online. Fortunately, MSRs are a fraction of the size & cost of legacy reactors, so the build phase shouldn't be too long.


    Nope. Burning coal is the cheapest way. Fortunately, most countries have at least realised that, cheap as it is, it's a horrible solution.
    I think it is worth defining what people mean by cheap. In the context of energy, it can mean multiple things:
    1) financially cost - how much does it cost to generate a unit of power.
    2) Environmental cost - the damage to the environment getting the fuel or creating the devices to convert the energy source into usable power. Even the "green" solutions such as solar/wind still have huge carbon footprints (chemicals/ mining for materials etc).
    3) Ecological cost - the physical damage caused by actually running the "power station" such as hydrocarbon emissions, spent fuel storage, damage to wildlife, damage to ecosystems etc.

    We, as a human race have gotten totally hung up in the past on financial cost as the only metric which matters. The other costs are only now starting to be taken in to account.

    We should actually probably rename power stations as energy convertors as that is what they mostly do - they convert one energy source (wind/wave/nuclear/coal/gas/oil etc) and convert it to electrical energy at the cost of a loss in encapsulated energy (every system has a % efficiency in how much energy is lost in the process).

  4. #44
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Wrexham
    Posts
    5,703
    Likes (Given)
    2815
    Likes (Received)
    2155
    Quote Originally Posted by notdeadyet View Post
    If the public are paying back EDF for building it, then yes, nuclear power is expensive. If it is part of the national infrastructure then that's totally different. Did you notice paying for the Iraq war?

    I'm not a fan of nationalisation but I do think basic infrastructure should be a state responsibility. If the state can own floating nuclear reactors then even for the fuckwits in Westminster owning one that doesn't move should be easy.
    Only allowed to like this once.

    having been involved with the floating kettles at a very minimum level; how they have never lost one in the erecting shed is a major mystery to me.

    nationalisation is a dirty word in the UK because it doesn`t work; yet those same industries are now run by foreign nationalised industries???

    Time to get the message, the british are freaking useless at running anything.

    We even have to import our politicians now; the home grown ones just can not cut it.

  5. #45
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Room 531
    Posts
    7,765
    Likes (Given)
    1832
    Likes (Received)
    6004
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    Only allowed to like this once.

    having been involved with the floating kettles at a very minimum level; how they have never lost one in the erecting shed is a major mystery to me.

    nationalisation is a dirty word in the UK because it doesn`t work; yet those same industries are now run by foreign nationalised industries???

    Time to get the message, the british are freaking useless at running anything.

    We even have to import our politicians now; the home grown ones just can not cut it.
    That makes me laugh in Scotland at the minute.

    The Dutch state has been allowed to run Scotrail into the ground for the last seven years and no-one said a word. It's been in Holyrood's hands for 8 weeks and people are acting like Nicola Sturgeon is personally murdering babies on the platform of Waverley Station.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  6. #46
    Tofu eating wokerato Chrisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    9,584
    Likes (Given)
    1002
    Likes (Received)
    4215
    Quote Originally Posted by notdeadyet View Post
    If the public are paying back EDF for building it, then yes, nuclear power is expensive. If it is part of the national infrastructure then that's totally different. Did you notice paying for the Iraq war?
    The costs of the Iraq war are hidden in the respect that they come from taxation. Decommissioning old nuclear plant is the same, it is tax not actual cost on the electric consumer. I have to agree with Neil's post though it is important to widen the concept of "cost". My observation on (existing) nuclear failed to do that. I am very willing to learn and understand if future nuclear technologies address the issue in a wider sense. We - humanity - must look at every possible alternative. If the problems of existing nuclear can be overcome all well and good. Whatever we want to move to needs to be on stream very very soon otherwise it will be too late.

    The UK government wants to (and more or less has) ban ICE by 2035. I found the new hydrogen engine by accident and am very interested in what people think about it. It is an ICE and as such will be banned in 2035. It looks to me to be a more advanced form of the rotary engine - a design that never took off. I remember the Norton engine (mate had one) and it was IIRC in various Mazda cars. This new version is a gas fuel as opposed to an atomised liquid but the principle is the same. The power to weight is impressive.

    There has been a lot of talk about hydrogen in the environmental debate and I feel sure it will have a role to play, maybe limited but some role nevertheless.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  7. #47
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Colchester
    Posts
    1,356
    Likes (Given)
    1757
    Likes (Received)
    346
    Yeah vehicle fuel is the trickiest thing to tackle. Electric's great for urban areas, but becomes more useless the more rural you get. Also, the environmental costs are just outsourced to the battery manufacturing supply chain.

    But then, the non-local environmental impact of rural vehicles is nothing compared to the footprint of residential & industrial energy usage - it's the base load generation solution that has to be switched asap.

    This is a renewables activist explaining why nuclear is the greenest option

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciStnd9Y2ak


    If you want to know more about the direction of travel with nuke power generation, this is a decent starting point (focusing on the thorium process - there are several others):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biToH42YZZ4


    This guy is trying to pre-empt the wave of coal power station commissioning that's planned in Asia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB1IrzDDI9g

  8. #48
    Tofu eating wokerato Chrisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    9,584
    Likes (Given)
    1002
    Likes (Received)
    4215
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilPage View Post
    Yeah vehicle fuel is the trickiest thing to tackle. Electric's great for urban areas, but becomes more useless the more rural you get. Also, the environmental costs are just outsourced to the battery manufacturing supply chain...
    Yes. Not just in financial or CO2 costs either. People have invested emotionally in personal transport and are locked into their way of thinking in so many ways. Electric powered vehicles are brilliant for so many things and for getting our (illegal) air pollution under control. So very many things could be powered in that way without consumer resistance, busses and bin lorries for example. Rather than banning ICE the use of ULEZ in major towns and cities would drive people to move to electric where it benefitted them. Additional benefits like free parking and charging would boost that technology. At the same time keeping the tax burden on fossil based fuels; petrol and diesel.

    I am sure you are correct that new generation nuclear has advantages. I really don't know what the financial costs are and I doubt the real figures are readily available. Again a blanket ban is (well IMHO) the wrong way to go.

    What is needed very very quickly is to stop the use of fossil fuels. At present the start of that journey is to stop the huge growth in the use of fossil fuels. We are way too late in the game and way too much in love with fossil hydrocarbons. As I said the political right are the problem. Alok Sharma chaired COP26 and said all the right things. A fortnight later the liar was making bullshit excuses why the UK should dig up more fossil fuel. The right echo those bullshit excuses and lies and play to the lowest level of human selfishness.

    The transition (assuming we do it) will be hard because we have left it so late. We left it late becasue the lies of the oil industry were backed by the political right the world over. I do not think if Trump were still in power there would be much hope if I am honest. Putin has taken over and together with Bolsanaro remains the biggest obstacle. The failure to get re-elected by Morrison is another bit of good news. Sadly the replacements (like Biden) are not a whole lot better and still give in to both the oil lobby and the whining pathetic moaning fossil adicted part of the public.

    Stopping coal in China should be a global priority and again we needed to have done a lot a very long time ago. Outsourcing our manufacturing to them cost us jobs and control of the environmental issues. The cost of putting it right now is many many orders of magnitude greater than the puny gains made. The decision to embrase the bollocks spouted by the Chicago School of Economics, by Friedman and Hayek was a very expensive mistake. The bill is in now. Still the liars want to tell you we will not have to pay it.

    Anyway, what do you think of the engine?
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  9. #49
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Room 531
    Posts
    7,765
    Likes (Given)
    1832
    Likes (Received)
    6004
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    People have invested emotionally in personal transport and are locked into their way of thinking in so many ways.
    To call it emotional thinking on behalf of the public is patronising and simplistic. People can barely afford to replace the cars they have with anything never mind going out and buying an electric vehicle. And then expect people to subsidise, via tax, free parking and charging for those who can already afford to pay their way? And tax into oblivion the sections of society that can least afford to pay and least afford to change their behaviours. Once again it comes down to everyone else paying for the privilege of the middle class. This isn't an emotional investment, this is the public doing the best they can under the circumstances. Calling people "emotional" is just totally dismissive of the reality that the country is living through. This was the practicality of life for most people even before the current economic climate. We're time and cash poor and that's modern civilisation the world over. You have to start from where you are, not some magic middle-class land. It's this Guardian-reader attitude that makes the left so hated by the very people who should be supporting it.

    I take it you have given up your motorbikes, cars and vans? Or is it just for everyone else?
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  10. #50
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Colchester
    Posts
    1,356
    Likes (Given)
    1757
    Likes (Received)
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Anyway, what do you think of the engine?
    The engineering looks very cool. Not sure about hydrogen tho - the difficulty of making it safe to store useful amounts of it is the sticking point.

    Have you seen the new flameless engine design for replacing diesel generators?

    https://www.ipg.energy/technology


 
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •