JJ costs

[Woz]

Cables seem to rot easier than other units, cracked heads, failed handsets, the disaster that was the HUS ...

On my 3rd head. One crack was user error, the other 2 just appeared from nowhere. I have a stainless laser cut ring and some knurled screws on it now. Those lift and turn things are gash.
Leaking cells were the main cause of loom rot. I had a 100% failure rate of AP14s. Not had a single problem since switching to the 16s (or the N@90 ones).

The AP units really really need another round of development to improve the engineering on them. TBH if I didn't have to have one to teach on it then I'd probably be diving something else. Things that need work:
Cracking heads.
Lift and turn things (try moving them with cold wet hands).
Stainless screws mashed into the threads next to the mouthpiece. If one of my apprentices came up with that they would get a telling off.
That case. It's buoyant, too big, and cracks in normal use. Just pay whatshisface for the GBox design and use that instead. Or make the can structural.
The harness. Too many clips and dangly bits and all the D rings are in the wrong place (and are not adjustable).
Wing weight pockets. In the wrong place, make the wing deform when you put weight in them.
Back mounted counterlungs. Get trapped between the case and your back so when you inflate the wing on the surface, you can't breathe.
BMC dump. Just extend it with a clip to the wing D ring as standard. The human body doesn't have enough elbows to reach it.
Lungs you can remove easily for cleaning.
The "not quite international" AP QD fittings. Everyone else in the world uses a set standard. Why is the AP one just everso slightly different?
Manifold bar. When you are machining it, please put a bigger flat on it then you can use any hose not a special one.
Batteries that you can replace without stripping the whole unit down.
Engineer out the spacer ring.
Engineer out the external scrubber dip tube.
Engineer out the injection ports on the counterlung and put them onto the T pieces instead.
User configurable startup menu.
A timer that is actually useful (only counts up when diving so you can measure the scrubber life properly). Having it count up when it's on is useless.
Change the crap handset strap for 2 bits of bungee.
Change the internal cell wiring so that you get sacrificial loom parts that are user changeable and aren't a birds nest.
Solid state O2 measurement.
Change the cylinder valve slugs to brass instead of plastic that go stiff with use.
Sell Sofnolime in small cans where you can get 2 fills out of one can, not 1.9 fills.
A head up display that works like a NERD.
Reposition the cells in the head so face of cell 3 doesn't get wet.

[graham_hk]

On my 3rd head. One crack was user error, the other 2 just appeared from nowhere. I have a stainless laser cut ring and some knurled screws on it now. Those lift and turn things are gash.
Leaking cells were the main cause of loom rot. I had a 100% failure rate of AP14s. Not had a single problem since switching to the 16s (or the N@90 ones).

The AP units really really need another round of development to improve the engineering on them. TBH if I didn't have to have one to teach on it then I'd probably be diving something else. Things that need work:
Cracking heads.
Lift and turn things (try moving them with cold wet hands).
Stainless screws mashed into the threads next to the mouthpiece. If one of my apprentices came up with that they would get a telling off.
That case. It's buoyant, too big, and cracks in normal use. Just pay whatshisface for the GBox design and use that instead. Or make the can structural.
The harness. Too many clips and dangly bits and all the D rings are in the wrong place (and are not adjustable).
Wing weight pockets. In the wrong place, make the wing deform when you put weight in them.
Back mounted counterlungs. Get trapped between the case and your back so when you inflate the wing on the surface, you can't breathe.
BMC dump. Just extend it with a clip to the wing D ring as standard. The human body doesn't have enough elbows to reach it.
Lungs you can remove easily for cleaning.
The "not quite international" AP QD fittings. Everyone else in the world uses a set standard. Why is the AP one just everso slightly different?
Manifold bar. When you are machining it, please put a bigger flat on it then you can use any hose not a special one.
Batteries that you can replace without stripping the whole unit down.
Engineer out the spacer ring.
Engineer out the external scrubber dip tube.
Engineer out the injection ports on the counterlung and put them onto the T pieces instead.
User configurable startup menu.
A timer that is actually useful (only counts up when diving so you can measure the scrubber life properly). Having it count up when it's on is useless.
Change the crap handset strap for 2 bits of bungee.
Change the internal cell wiring so that you get sacrificial loom parts that are user changeable and aren't a birds nest.
Solid state O2 measurement.
Change the cylinder valve slugs to brass instead of plastic that go stiff with use.
Sell Sofnolime in small cans where you can get 2 fills out of one can, not 1.9 fills.
A head up display that works like a NERD.
Reposition the cells in the head so face of cell 3 doesn't get wet.

Or you could just buy a JJ ...

[MikeF]

On my 3rd head. One crack was user error, the other 2 just appeared from nowhere. I have a stainless laser cut ring and some knurled screws on it now. Those lift and turn things are gash.
Leaking cells were the main cause of loom rot. I had a 100% failure rate of AP14s. Not had a single problem since switching to the 16s (or the N@90 ones).

The AP units really really need another round of development to improve the engineering on them. TBH if I didn't have to have one to teach on it then I'd probably be diving something else. Things that need work:
Cracking heads.
Lift and turn things (try moving them with cold wet hands).
Stainless screws mashed into the threads next to the mouthpiece. If one of my apprentices came up with that they would get a telling off.
That case. It's buoyant, too big, and cracks in normal use. Just pay whatshisface for the GBox design and use that instead. Or make the can structural.
The harness. Too many clips and dangly bits and all the D rings are in the wrong place (and are not adjustable).
Wing weight pockets. In the wrong place, make the wing deform when you put weight in them.
Back mounted counterlungs. Get trapped between the case and your back so when you inflate the wing on the surface, you can't breathe.
BMC dump. Just extend it with a clip to the wing D ring as standard. The human body doesn't have enough elbows to reach it.
Lungs you can remove easily for cleaning.
The "not quite international" AP QD fittings. Everyone else in the world uses a set standard. Why is the AP one just everso slightly different?
Manifold bar. When you are machining it, please put a bigger flat on it then you can use any hose not a special one.
Batteries that you can replace without stripping the whole unit down.
Engineer out the spacer ring.
Engineer out the external scrubber dip tube.
Engineer out the injection ports on the counterlung and put them onto the T pieces instead.
User configurable startup menu.
A timer that is actually useful (only counts up when diving so you can measure the scrubber life properly). Having it count up when it's on is useless.
Change the crap handset strap for 2 bits of bungee.
Change the internal cell wiring so that you get sacrificial loom parts that are user changeable and aren't a birds nest.
Solid state O2 measurement.
Change the cylinder valve slugs to brass instead of plastic that go stiff with use.
Sell Sofnolime in small cans where you can get 2 fills out of one can, not 1.9 fills.
A head up display that works like a NERD.
Reposition the cells in the head so face of cell 3 doesn't get wet.

just laughed reading your list. It's not a hard one to come up with is it?

I had an AP unit and did the following mods:

- replaced the head with a deep pursuit. no more rats nest and handsets that work, and batteries you can change and sacrificial wiring you can change, and HUD that tells you ppO2
- replaced the mouthpiece with a BOV with bayonet clips that got rid of the stupid little screws bodge
- replaced the case with a structural box made of aluminium with attachment points for stages after the buoyant case cracked
- replaced the harness with a backplate and harness where I could position the D rings
- bolted a weight inside the top of the case to get rid of the wing weights
- replaced the counterlungs with BMCL's very similar to the JJ and changed the wing and inserted a spacer to create room to breathe with the wing inflated on the surface
- extended the BMCL dump cord through a clip on the bottom of the wing so I can reach it
- changed the AP hoses and QD nipples to standard ones
- changed the manifold bar to one that takes standard hose fittings
- added an adjustable dump valve to the exhale Tee
- re-hosed it to run from either onboard or offboard gas as required

the only thing left that annoyed me that I couldn't change so easily was the snorkel on the scrubber and the small hose diameter which undoubtedly affect the work of breathing of the unit.

Then the JJ came along and I ended up buying one for the form factor after watching someone glide through a hole I couldn't fit through. It's by no means perfect but it's neater and does address quite a few of the inspo issues, though I instantly re-hosed it and added a NERD before it even got wet. Just need to figure out how to add the adjustable dump valve to the loop.

saying that I still quite like dealing with AP, they fix stuff, they sell you spares with no nonsense and produce really good service manuals for their kit. They just need to bring the inspo up to date and engineer out the obvious issues.

[Woz]

Or you could just buy a JJ ...

If I didn't have to use an Inspo for teaching, I possibly would. See above I did mention this...! However JJ won't let anyone but a tightly controlled group of instructors teach on it. And I won't teach for pay as divers couldn't afford my hourly rate.

[Woz]

just laughed reading your list. It's not a hard one to come up with is it?

I had an AP unit and did the following mods:

- replaced the head with a deep pursuit. no more rats nest and handsets that work, and batteries you can change and sacrificial wiring you can change, and HUD that tells you ppO2
- replaced the mouthpiece with a BOV with bayonet clips that got rid of the stupid little screws bodge
- replaced the case with a structural box made of aluminium with attachment points for stages after the buoyant case cracked
- replaced the harness with a backplate and harness where I could position the D rings
- bolted a weight inside the top of the case to get rid of the wing weights
- replaced the counterlungs with BMCL's very similar to the JJ and changed the wing and inserted a spacer to create room to breathe with the wing inflated on the surface
- extended the BMCL dump cord through a clip on the bottom of the wing so I can reach it
- changed the AP hoses and QD nipples to standard ones
- changed the manifold bar to one that takes standard hose fittings
- added an adjustable dump valve to the exhale Tee
- re-hosed it to run from either onboard or offboard gas as required

the only thing left that annoyed me that I couldn't change so easily was the snorkel on the scrubber and the small hose diameter which undoubtedly affect the work of breathing of the unit.

Then the JJ came along and I ended up buying one for the form factor after watching someone glide through a hole I couldn't fit through. It's by no means perfect but it's neater and does address quite a few of the inspo issues, though I instantly re-hosed it and added a NERD before it even got wet. Just need to figure out how to add the adjustable dump valve to the loop.

saying that I still quite like dealing with AP, they fix stuff, they sell you spares with no nonsense and produce really good service manuals for their kit. They just need to bring the inspo up to date and engineer out the obvious issues.

In a similar vein...

- added a NERD2 and dribble valve from a feller in New Zealand so I run it as an mCCR and the only time the AP stuff works is on switch on and calibration
- I had a lovely Divematics BOV that used an XStream reg and would blow your wig off. Now have an AP one and it's pretty poor in comparison
- I use a heavily modified Custom Divers frame with custom made covers (one plastic for travel and freshwater, one made from stainless for seawater). I can twat it off anything and it just takes it without breaking and it's held on very securely with one single nut and hand screw. No more cases coming open underwater, clips breaking or cases cracking. And it trims out perfectly too. And is a whopping 700g heavier than the standard case in "flight mode".
- Back plate and harness- check. I have a 5mm one for UK work and a custom cut aluminium one that's mostly air for travel
- The frame has a pair of cam bands per cylinder. So I just have some trim pouches on the top band. Simple, tucked out of the way and perfectly positioned
- My BMCL are modified JJ ones with AP inners. The AP ones don't come far enough over the shoulder whereas these ones do so the WOB is much better and they don't get trapped. Plus I just take the backplate off (2 screws) and the lungs come off for easy cleaning in the sink.
- Dump cord extended through some black pneumatic tubing with a P clip on the end. It just clips onto the wing D ring and you can pull it just by waving your hand vaguely in the right place. It's really easy
- Use the AP hoses to the MAV, but made my own twin button MAV that takes standard offboard fittings so I can plug in anything
- Manifold bar is an Omniswivel one so takes anything
- BOV is plumbed in using a CEJN 221 connector (like a big fat Apeks drysuit connector) so I can use a standard hose from any shop if something pops
- Wiring uses sacrificial tees and elbows so they get hit instead of the loom by a green goo leak
- Stainless ring and knurled nuts to replace the lift and turn things (still in the delivery package I haven't swapped those yet)

TBH it's the cracking heads that worry me the most. Everything else I can cope with apart from the mechanical plastic failure.

[notdeadyet]

They just need to bring the inspo up to date and engineer out the obvious issues.

That seems to be the problem with most rebreathers. They are almost all getting very long in the tooth. Other than just availability there's not much point buying a brand new rebreather when even a fairly old second hand unit is either not a hell of a lot different or can be brought up to spec fairly easily and cheaply. Plus you aren't buying unknown issues. Some companies, like KISS, I don't know why they keep going when there's been zero development for a decade other than hiking the price (and strapping a Shearwater on it is hardly innovation). 20 years down the line and you're still putting stainless screws into delrin threads on a piece of kit that costs thousands... FFS... There must be enough of the main brand units in the world to meet demand forever by now.

[jturner]

If anyone is looking for a JJ, I know a chap who is on the verge of selling his.

[Woz]

Like this but have the 2020 handset now. And yes I know it looks like a bloody JJ now...!

[Woz]

Aluminium travel backplate. Mostly air...

[jacko]

Op your location says Cornwall .
Feek me you can walk in and have it sorted .
Ps 13 years ap unit no problems .

Ride up to Manchester iv a shit load of CCR kit rusting away in my lockup ( the rust bit is a joke ) also enough kit to rebuild/service unit twice over .
Make me a offer some place between £1000 and £1500 unit regs cylinder bail out and computer s lol I'll not be needing it again .

Nowhere in Cornwall takes a small amount of time to get to, plus I left Cornwall 4 years ago, didn’t realise I had set location on here.

Doesn’t matter how many times they fix things either, once lost confidence with something very difficult to get it back.