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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalahari diver View Post
    there is a certain reason to women worrying about men identifying as women using women only spaces could be due to the unsubstantiated claims of rapes commited by female identifiers in women only nhs wards and women's prison.
    ftfy

  2. #82
    Tofu eating wokerato Chrisch's Avatar
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    For those of you who want to see my cock.

    https://vimeo.com/707464592
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  3. #83
    Prior Member Tim Digger's Avatar
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    there is a certain reason to women worrying about men identifying as women using women only spaces could be due to the unsubstantiated claims of rapes commited by female identifiers in women only nhs wards and women's prison.

    You may well be right but that doesn't stop it being worrying or frightening to those with bad experiences who hear about these claimed events. Where the greatest good in greatest number lies in this conflict of ""rights"" I really don't know.
    Evolution is great at solving problems. It's the methods that concern me.
    Tim Digger

  4. #84
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    I have debated on adding anything to this discussion as I have quite a deep and personal interest in the whole issue as my eldest child transitioned to female from male 19 years ago while at university and through her I have made friends with quite a few transwomen and transmen.

    Let's get it straight, it isn't a lifestyle choice for them- it is a very difficult path through life.
    All of them I have met have suffered a huge amount of verbal, on-line and physical abuse. The suicide rate is very high in the trans community. Ask yourself why and what drives the abuse. One answer is the misinformation pedaled by certain newspapers ( Daily mail, Telegraph etc), plus some American rightwing evangelical churches are funding anti trans campaigns and the Bell case in court. Seems to me that these papers having lied about the benefits of brexit have latched on to culture war as a way keeping their readers happy.

    Looking at the toilet issue- how is this going to be enforced? Will only those who look suitably feminine be allowed to use the ladies? How will this be measured? Will wearing make-up and very feminine clothes be compulsory to use the ladies? I know a butch lesbian who has been abused in a ladies loo and called a “trannie” due to her short hair and clothes.

    Safe space for women should be for all women, cis women and transwomen. Single sex wards was brought up, with the one disputed case being mentioned and touted as proof that transwomen should not be in the same ward. Fact is there are far too many cases where women have been sexually abused by male doctors, so following the logic of a transwoman being a danger to other patients, then no male doctor should be allowed to treat female patients.

    It seems to me, that one of the beliefs causing issues, and is really promoted by some radical feminists, is the one is that all men are rapists. By the way, once hormone treatment is started, with testosterone blockers and oestrogen prescribed, gaining an erection is problematic!

  5. #85
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w650peter View Post
    I have debated on adding anything to this discussion as I have quite a deep and personal interest in the whole issue as my eldest child transitioned to female from male 19 years ago while at university and through her I have made friends with quite a few transwomen and transmen.

    Let's get it straight, it isn't a lifestyle choice for them- it is a very difficult path through life.
    All of them I have met have suffered a huge amount of verbal, on-line and physical abuse. The suicide rate is very high in the trans community. Ask yourself why and what drives the abuse. One answer is the misinformation pedaled by certain newspapers ( Daily mail, Telegraph etc), plus some American rightwing evangelical churches are funding anti trans campaigns and the Bell case in court. Seems to me that these papers having lied about the benefits of brexit have latched on to culture war as a way keeping their readers happy.

    Looking at the toilet issue- how is this going to be enforced? Will only those who look suitably feminine be allowed to use the ladies? How will this be measured? Will wearing make-up and very feminine clothes be compulsory to use the ladies? I know a butch lesbian who has been abused in a ladies loo and called a “trannie” due to her short hair and clothes.

    Safe space for women should be for all women, cis women and transwomen. Single sex wards was brought up, with the one disputed case being mentioned and touted as proof that transwomen should not be in the same ward. Fact is there are far too many cases where women have been sexually abused by male doctors, so following the logic of a transwoman being a danger to other patients, then no male doctor should be allowed to treat female patients.

    It seems to me, that one of the beliefs causing issues, and is really promoted by some radical feminists, is the one is that all men are rapists. By the way, once hormone treatment is started, with testosterone blockers and oestrogen prescribed, gaining an erection is problematic!
    That's a really interesting read. As I said in my previous post, my views were the total opposite to what they are now just a few years ago. One of things that changed my mind was realising that someone I'd known for a fairly long while was transgender without me ever thinking about it or noticing it. Having the issue made human rather than just an abstract to talk about on the internet changes your view and I think that's a big thing. Transgender people are a tiny and not always obvious minority, the chances of knowing anyone are very low. Saying "I think you should be excluded because..." to an actual person is a hell of lot different to "I think they should be excluded because..." on the internet.

    The media are scum that profit from division. Social media are also scum that encourage awful behaviour. I heard a brilliant description of Twitter the other day: "a video game where having the biggest complaint wins" and that really sums it up. If you want to avoid violence then the reality is that your own home is one of the most dangerous places to be. That's a horrific thing for a modern country to admit to, 2 million reported cases of domestic abuse in England & Wales last year alone. But it doesn't sell papers or clicks or advertising. Create monsters in hiding and there's a new one every decade or so to be afraid of. If you don't want to be raped or murdered then avoid people you know because they are the ones most likely to do it.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by w650peter View Post
    Safe space for women should be for all women, cis women and transwomen.
    However... what gets me is the number of men voicing their opinion on what in my view is an issue for women who have probably had enough of men telling them what they should or should not be doing... I've got no qualms about anyone using the same toilet area as me but I'm able to take care of myself and as a man, not really at risk of sexual violence. If (due to their experiences) some women feel uncomfortable about a transgender person using their safe space, I can understand their concerns.

    Just be nice.

    Which brings us back to Jay and this only stopping when people stop being pillocks.


 
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