Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 69
  1. #51
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    13,949
    Likes (Given)
    5637
    Likes (Received)
    5181
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Nah, battery died on my new(er) laptop, so got out the old one out and the TDF tab still had my password on it.
    Latest post was PD, read a few and there I was. It's been quite a few years since I last posted on here.

    Don't worry, new battery arrives friday
    3 days out but back for the weekend, that sucks. Is getting a few pints in allowed under the conditions of your release?
    JJ wanker

  2. #52
    Established TDF Member Iain Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    2,565
    Likes (Given)
    1358
    Likes (Received)
    1692
    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    My ears were burning
    Maybe it's like invoking a demon by saying its name!

    Yes thanks for that Iain, very much alive and kicking.
    Honestly glad to hear that. Wouldn't wish the "if not..." on anyone.

    I'd had enough way before lockdown as found forums became boring, just churnig out the same old BS and by the looks, nowt has changed
    Plus Áa change, plus c'est la mÍme chose...

    I'll go back to sleep now
    I will probably do likewise. Not least because it's going to be at least July before I can get back in the water, which was not the plan at the time I bought a damned RB...
    Sleep well!

  3. #53
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    3,619
    Likes (Given)
    980
    Likes (Received)
    1744
    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    My position has always been that newbies are better off using a secondary until the advantages of PD outweigh the disadvantages and guess
    what? the new course does NOT change this.

    "Aimed at already-qualified twin-set divers, or divers currently completing the BSAC Twin-set Diver course,"

    "While BSACís preferred method in an out-of-gas situation is to take the alternative supply (AS) from stowage"



    There have aways been three camps in this

    1. You will die if you do PD
    2. Use what's best for where you are in your diving
    3. You will die if you use an Octopus

    All I see is BSAC (officiially) moving from 1 to 2, now if those who spout 3 could accept that 2 still works for some, then we can all hold hands again
    I think that people who who spout 3 have forgotten how difficult it can be for new divers. Training new divers how to cope with PD and a hog-looped long hose is much too complicated. I'm teaching an Ocean Diver Course at the moment and I certainly wouldn't want to be trying to teach tem PD.

    I remember one occasion when we had some trainees up at Stoney but one of the instructors failed to turn up. Our DO at the time was there not to instruct but to test out his equipment and offered to help. He did the buddy check with the trainees and their eyes glazed over when he tried to explain his double bladder wing with OPH, twin set and long hose. I overheard one of the trainees say afterwards that they perhaps should have done PADI training since they didn't bother with such complex equipment.

    Most divers are only going to be doing sub 30m single cylinder recreational diving and for the minority to try and force advanced techniques on to them is frankly selfish. When divers get to Sports Diver level it is reasonable to expect them to have the skills and confidence to cope with PD but not at Ocean Diver level.

  4. #54
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    9,106
    Likes (Given)
    922
    Likes (Received)
    4000
    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    ... Training new divers how to cope with PD and a hog-looped long hose is much too complicated. ...
    When you run out of gas I donate this one to you.

    I fail to see any complexity whatsoever.
    We give £350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  5. #55
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,775
    Likes (Given)
    193
    Likes (Received)
    738
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    When you run out of gas I donate this one to you.

    I fail to see any complexity whatsoever.
    Agree 100% people who says it too complicated are underselling their students ... maybe due to their own insecurities (who knows). I have certainly taught 750 students maybe over 1000 and never had anybody struggle with regulator stuff and if they did you are right there as an instructor and can PD your regulator straight into their mouth.

  6. #56
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    1,178
    Likes (Given)
    181
    Likes (Received)
    499
    If you over complicate the dive brief then yes new students could be put off. Compared to air sharing a single reg understanding your buddy will donate the one in his mouth is simple.

  7. #57
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Room 531
    Posts
    7,117
    Likes (Given)
    1643
    Likes (Received)
    5522
    Surely the simple answer is that everyone goes through 5 minutes at the next pool night and experiences a primary donate and the world can move on? It's no different to taking a first aid refresher. Is CPR too complicated now too? It really does sound like the problem is mindset rather than technique, I suspect there would be plenty who deliberately fail to get it.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  8. #58
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    9,106
    Likes (Given)
    922
    Likes (Received)
    4000
    Quote Originally Posted by notdeadyet View Post
    Surely the simple answer is that everyone goes through 5 minutes at the next pool night and experiences a primary donate and the world can move on? ..
    You would think so. 1985 would have been a good time to do it.

    In fairness to BSAC it is one of the best one star training systems for showing the new divers a primary donate. While PADI insist on a 3 foot pipe superglued to the side of your head BSAC has a more open approach. New divers are taught to take the AAS and the donating diver indicates where it is (in my gob). Might take all of 40 seconds to actually demonstrate it or (I agree with you Stuart) give it the full 5 minutes in the pool if you really want to.

    Even a diplodocus could do it.
    We give £350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  9. #59
    Established TDF Member Steve Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Lancaster, UK
    Posts
    2,779
    Likes (Given)
    269
    Likes (Received)
    1804
    There is no issue whatsoever teaching new divers primary donate. Itís exceptionally effective and a good tool for teaching proper buddy diving. You actually need to concentrate and take some action if your buddy has a problem.

    Presumably, the aim of a U.K. BSAC club is to turn a pair of total non-divers into people with enough skills to jump of a boat, in the channel, into 30m of a marginal vis water, in a drysuit, look after themselves on the bottom and make a safe mid-water ascent under a dsmb, in some kind of reasonable timeframe, say 1 season? If you donít have the confidence that theyíll be capable of doing that (and/or including primary donate) then the instructors need to up their game or seek external assistance.

  10. #60
    TDF Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    326
    Likes (Given)
    123
    Likes (Received)
    152
    I adopted primary donate and long hose off my own bat not long after doing PADI open water having read it in a book and it seemed pretty straightforward. OK there's the odd pitfall of not getting it trapped under your inflator hose, but there are pitfalls with anything. Having subsequently done air donation in a BSAC course it was apparent that sharing on an Octopus was a very stressful thing compared to a 2m hose which seemed like a normal dive in comparison. Anyhow, that's
    my take on adopting it as a numpty level diver - it just seems easier.

    Whilst allowing it / training it is of course "a good thing" (tm) it does strike me as odd that only this arrangement needs special training but any of the myriad ways of having a conventional octopus whether sensible or dangerously stupid are deemed OK without being specifically trained.


 
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •