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Thread: Scary or what?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    I could, if I wanted to, attend and pass a first aid course, tech diving course or rebreather etc however, if I choose (consciously or subconsciously) not to abide by that training or forget the knowledge 5 minutes later, that is on me and only me.
    The situation gets a bit more complex if you were a member of a club on an official club dive. The Club and DO have a legal duty of care. OK, BSAC insurance should cover the Club/DO (subject to Safe Diving Guidelines being followed) but you really don't want to go there if you can possibly avoid it.

  2. #32
    Established TDF Member Energy58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post

    Incidentally, I came across one diver with four 'experiences' signed off as the result of a single dive at Stoney. I'm not sure that this is in the spirit of what is intended although it is probably within the rules.
    No that's not in the rules - its clearly one "experience" per dive so no "low viz, from a boat, in protective clothing: that's three on that dive" etc.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Energy58 View Post
    No that's not in the rules - its clearly one "experience" per dive so no "low viz, from a boat, in protective clothing: that's three on that dive" etc.
    That's how I've always looked at it - one experience per dive. That's why I believe it is virtually impossible to achive SD sign-off in only 12 dives.

    This one was shore dive, low viz, wall dive and shot line (down the line to the Stanegarth) all in one dive.
    Last edited by Allan Carr; 13-10-2021 at 05:52 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    That's how I've always looked at it - one experience per dive. That's why I believe it is virtually impossible to achive SD sign-off in only 12 dives.

    This one was shore dive, low viz, wall dive and shot line (down the line to the Stanegarth) all in one dive.
    In the SD Instructor Manual, August 2019, it states only one experience element per dive for Groups 2 elements; Group 1 could be combined on one dive. The SD Instructor Manual, May 2020, does not contain this restriction, therefore, by default a shore dive, with protective clothing, in low visability and cold water could be signed-off for a single dive.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward3c View Post
    In the SD Instructor Manual, August 2019, it states only one experience element per dive for Groups 2 elements; Group 1 could be combined on one dive. The SD Instructor Manual, May 2020, does not contain this restriction, therefore, by default a shore dive, with protective clothing, in low visability and cold water could be signed-off for a single dive.
    and that, in part, is one of the reasons I won't (as a BSAC AI) ever be a Diving Officer again - on the one hand I'm awarding a qualification based on four "experiences" (and some training) in one dive - the next I'm (I think reasonably) going "I don't care if you've got 'X', if your mask leaked at the bottom of the shot on the Countess, you're a liability to your buddy (who, at 12m could be similarly inexperienced). And if things go wrong I could get sued, in the one case for "withholding" qualifications and in the other by a widow(er)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1st Ade View Post
    and that, in part, is one of the reasons I won't (as a BSAC AI) ever be a Diving Officer again - on the one hand I'm awarding a qualification based on four "experiences" (and some training) in one dive - the next I'm (I think reasonably) going "I don't care if you've got 'X', if your mask leaked at the bottom of the shot on the Countess, you're a liability to your buddy (who, at 12m could be similarly inexperienced). And if things go wrong I could get sued, in the one case for "withholding" qualifications and in the other by a widow(er)
    Pretty much my attitude too. Why would anyone want to be DO?

    Graham.

  7. #37
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    Pretty much my attitude too. Why would anyone want to be DO?

    Graham.
    Unfortunately someone has to be. Such is the way the system is set up. Therefore if people want the benefits of a club such as a shared boat someone has to take on the task. Over the years I have seen the never ending, never resolved BS about insurance and the largely imaginary fear of being held responsible for someone else's incompetence. It pervades all the debates on the subject and takes up gigabytes of space on the discussion boards. Given enough time it will eventuially - I am sure - be the final nail in the coffin of many a club.

    Maybe it is time for a change to the way things are set up? Not because it is failing but because so many people have no confidence in it?
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1st Ade View Post
    and that, in part, is one of the reasons I won't (as a BSAC AI) ever be a Diving Officer again - on the one hand I'm awarding a qualification based on four "experiences" (and some training) in one dive - the next I'm (I think reasonably) going "I don't care if you've got 'X', if your mask leaked at the bottom of the shot on the Countess, you're a liability to your buddy (who, at 12m could be similarly inexperienced). And if things go wrong I could get sued, in the one case for "withholding" qualifications and in the other by a widow(er)
    It's the instructor who signed off the lesson is responsible for the training provided and the student's competence. The Lead Instructor is confirming all the elements have been signed-off - that's it since e-Bulletin 48, Jan 07.

  9. #39
    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Unfortunately someone has to be. Such is the way the system is set up. Therefore if people want the benefits of a club such as a shared boat someone has to take on the task.
    Never saw the issue with the qualification part of being DO. Unless it has changed, lessons and experience dives are signed off by qualified instructors, not the DO, and the DO is merely responsible for ensuring all necessary elements have been signed and then awarding the grade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Over the years I have seen the never ending, never resolved BS about insurance and the largely imaginary fear of being held responsible for someone else's incompetence. It pervades all the debates on the subject and takes up gigabytes of space on the discussion boards.
    Ah yes, the imaginary insurance and legal claims is such a joy for the legal expert keyboard warriors!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Given enough time it will eventuially - I am sure - be the final nail in the coffin of many a club.

    Maybe it is time for a change to the way things are set up? Not because it is failing but because so many people have no confidence in it?
    Lack of time and money, growing costs, and apathy are the things killing diving and clubs, not the organisation. The occasional rotten individual can ruin a club but it's largely the apathy of the other members that lets them.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitlow View Post

    Lack of time and money, growing costs, and apathy are the things killing diving and clubs, not the organisation. The occasional rotten individual can ruin a club but it's largely the apathy of the other members that lets them.
    Plus so many members want to take things out but are not prepared to give anything back in return - at the front of the queue when wanting training but but strangely missing when any help is needed.


 
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