Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 74

Thread: Scary or what?

  1. #1
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    3,663
    Likes (Given)
    989
    Likes (Received)
    1762
    Blog Entries
    1

    Scary or what?

    Last night we had a 12 year old in the pool for a try-dive. He is the grandson of one of our former members who had to cease diving for medical reasons and was really keen to follow in his grandfather's footsteps. To encourage him, his parents had bought him a try-dive with a PADI 5-star centre whilst on holiday in Crete. They had taken him down to 12m in the sea on a try-dive, hadn't explained how to clear his ears (if your ears hurt, he was told just stop and wait until it stops before going any deeper!) nor had they warned him about breath holding on ascending. The poor kid had been scared stiff and last night's session was all about trying to rebuild his confidence which will take a few more sessions.

    Another new member has joined us a a qualified PADI AOW with a Deep Speciality from another overseas centre. He's done a grand total of 12 dives.

    Some of these centres really do have very dubious standards.

  2. #2
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,780
    Likes (Given)
    193
    Likes (Received)
    742
    Why is having done deep speciality with 12 dives scary? I have seen bsac divers with 1000s of dives who were both less comfortable and less skilful than other agency divers with 12 dives

  3. #3
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    East Midlands
    Posts
    3,297
    Likes (Given)
    1096
    Likes (Received)
    1410
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    Last night we had a 12 year old in the pool for a try-dive. He is the grandson of one of our former members who had to cease diving for medical reasons and was really keen to follow in his grandfather's footsteps. To encourage him, his parents had bought him a try-dive with a PADI 5-star centre whilst on holiday in Crete. They had taken him down to 12m in the sea on a try-dive, hadn't explained how to clear his ears (if your ears hurt, he was told just stop and wait until it stops before going any deeper!) nor had they warned him about breath holding on ascending. The poor kid had been scared stiff and last night's session was all about trying to rebuild his confidence which will take a few more sessions.
    With respect to the Try Dive, yes, I'd agree based on what you've said, though I would also urge a little caution as many people have been known to be flexible with the truth. Equally, he could also be saying what he "thought" he'd been told as communication isn't always anywhere near as good as we would like to think it is, especially with youngsters. I've had people assure me they have only done 2 dives on the Open Water course, when it reality it was 2 day's diving, 4 dives. I've also had someone report reaching 40m in Stoney Cove...

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    Another new member has joined us a a qualified PADI AOW with a Deep Speciality from another overseas centre. He's done a grand total of 12 dives.
    4 for Open Water, another 5 for AOW and 3 for Deep assuming there's no overlap between AOW and Deep. Quite within standards. If the person was good enough to do it safely, what's the problem? Would you prefer some kind of arbitrary barrier (min number of dives) before someone is allowed to dive to 40m?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    Some of these centres really do have very dubious standards.
    Some do, some don't. Just like the UK and all training agencies.
    The views expressed are my own, worth what you've paid for them, are not on behalf of anyone else and not those of any company I work for etc.

  4. #4
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,780
    Likes (Given)
    193
    Likes (Received)
    742
    Quote Originally Posted by jturner View Post
    Some do, some don't. Just like the UK and all training agencies.
    Never let the truth get in the way of a bit of padi bashing

  5. #5
    Established TDF Member Nickpicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Dacorum
    Posts
    4,134
    Likes (Given)
    3525
    Likes (Received)
    2266
    I don't know because I wasn't there, but could it be that the dive centre explained about clearing ears and breathing normally (using a positive teaching terminology rather than the negative "don't" hold your breath), but 12 year old boys aren't renowned for their attention spans. If there's also a language barrier then it's even more likely that he could have missed something as it was explained.

    12m for a try dive seems deep to me, but PADI's standards are upto 12m for a Discover scuba, so it's within standards.

    Qualifying as Padi AOW within 12 dives is quite possible.
    On a similar note, I could train someone upto BSAC Sports Diver in only 9 dives (12 if you include the 35m depth progression).
    Proud to be a boring health and softy crap following sissie!

  6. #6
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    3,663
    Likes (Given)
    989
    Likes (Received)
    1762
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickpicks View Post
    I don't know because I wasn't there, but could it be that the dive centre explained about clearing ears and breathing normally (using a positive teaching terminology rather than the negative "don't" hold your breath), but 12 year old boys aren't renowned for their attention spans. If there's also a language barrier then it's even more likely that he could have missed something as it was explained.

    12m for a try dive seems deep to me, but PADI's standards are upto 12m for a Discover scuba, so it's within standards.

    Qualifying as Padi AOW within 12 dives is quite possible.
    On a similar note, I could train someone upto BSAC Sports Diver in only 9 dives (12 if you include the 35m depth progression).
    Yes, we could certify someone as a Sports Diver in only 12 dives including depth progression but would you? I don't think it is safe or sensible to take someone with only 11 dives under their belt down to 38m, especially someone with no rescue training. He didn't feel comfortable doing it but felt pressured into it.

    The 12 year old is a very bright young lad and listened very carefully to what he was told when he came to us so I don't think it was a lack of attention on his part. Certainly language might have played a part but even so, taking him down to 12m on his first experience of diving within a few minutes, even if it is within PADI standards wasn't sensible. That should be a maximum, not a target.

    I've no beef with PADI training , especially in the UK where it is tightly regulated and this wasn't meant as an agency bashing but some of the overeas operations are rather lax in their implementation of PADI standards. My wife and I have experienced several ourselves on our extensive travels, although most are safe and well run. My next door neighbour's daughter and her husband own several hotels and a dive operation in Indonesia. She says that there are several operations in their region whose qualifications, based on experience of those who qualified there and subsequently dived with them that they do not trust. She says that the only time that they ever see someone from PADI is when they want to sell them something. The PADI Asia/Pacific region is huge and trying to ensure that quality standards are maintained must be nigh on impossible.

    Agency bashing is not one-way - we've just been on the receiving end of a blatant bit of BSAC bashing by a PADI instructor, to the extent that a fairly recent member has accused us of fraudulently representing the quality of BSAC training and validity of BSAC quailifications and demanded all his club fees and course costs for him and his kid returned plus recompense for travel costs and entry fees to Open Water sites.

  7. #7
    Established TDF Member MikeF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Darkest Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    4,014
    Likes (Given)
    211
    Likes (Received)
    2924
    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    Why is having done deep speciality with 12 dives scary? I have seen bsac divers with 1000s of dives who were both less comfortable and less skilful than other agency divers with 12 dives …
    Sheesh really? my bullshit meter just went off the scale.

  8. #8
    Established TDF Member Energy58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    London at the moment
    Posts
    1,935
    Likes (Given)
    297
    Likes (Received)
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickpicks View Post
    I don't know because I wasn't there, but could it be that the dive centre explained about clearing ears and breathing normally (using a positive teaching terminology rather than the negative "don't" hold your breath), but 12 year old boys aren't renowned for their attention spans. If there's also a language barrier then it's even more likely that he could have missed something as it was explained.

    12m for a try dive seems deep to me, but PADI's standards are upto 12m for a Discover scuba, so it's within standards.

    Qualifying as Padi AOW within 12 dives is quite possible.
    On a similar note, I could train someone upto BSAC Sports Diver in only 9 dives (12 if you include the 35m depth progression).
    To be fair DSD despite being money for old rope is quite a bit more involved than a try dive so its completely unfair to compare the two.

  9. #9
    TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    South Midlands
    Posts
    237
    Likes (Given)
    223
    Likes (Received)
    179
    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    ...That should be a maximum, not a target.
    This ^^^^^

  10. #10
    TDF Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    England
    Posts
    390
    Likes (Given)
    51
    Likes (Received)
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    Agency bashing is not one-way - we've just been on the receiving end of a blatant bit of BSAC bashing by a PADI instructor, to the extent that a fairly recent member has accused us of fraudulently representing the quality of BSAC training and validity of BSAC quailifications >>snip<<
    I've had that as well - after stopping the instructor from taking a visably shivering trainee into Stoney on a freezing cold Febuaury morning.


 
Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •