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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Not my list but feel free to pass the above to them directly or even just document where all the above formal accident investigation data is. That draws its conclusions, obviously supported by formal testing of the specific rebreathers is question; as to identify the root causes of the fatality or fatalities in the multiple dual cases and Iíll pass it on.
    This 'list' has been repeatedly criticised for its inaccuracies on multiple forums. Its now more famous for its inaccuracies than the actual data it contains, if there actually is any data that you can trust on it. How about the author take it down, do some non agenda driven CCR accident research and put up correct rebreather fatal accident data analysis. Its not up to the community to correct your mistakes and no data is better than made up data.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathal View Post
    This 'list' has been repeatedly criticised for its inaccuracies on multiple forums. Its now more famous for its inaccuracies than the actual data it contains, if there actually is any data that you can trust on it. How about the author take it down, do some non agenda driven CCR accident research and put up correct rebreather fatal accident data analysis. Its not up to the community to correct your mistakes and no data is better than made up data.
    I have not looked at the list for ages the one incident on it I knew much about was so inaccurate it lost all credibility for the rest.

    Graham.

  3. #93
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    I have not looked at the list for ages the one incident on it I knew much about was so inaccurate it lost all credibility for the rest.

    Graham.
    My personal favourite was the missing cave diver who got listed as a fatality while the search for him was still ongoing after he failed to return. I think it was either on the day his disappearance was reported or the next. Certainly in the time horizon that he could still be alive in a dry section between sumps. That kind of gives you a measure of the people you are dealing with.

    I remember seeing a few years ago the name of someone I knew on it who wasn't actually dead. There is more rumour and gossip and assumption on it than Mumsnet. I've half considered faking an incident to see if I could get it listed. I don't think it would be that hard. The prequisites never really seemed that strict, as long as it could be used to fuel an agenda then on it goes.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  4. #94
    Last of the Mohicans gobfish1's Avatar
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    inaccurate as it is it's still useful as a dead diver count . Adw9 s take on what he says is the root cause is a good insight in to he's
    World of fantasy and fiction and financial marketing plans . He's proliferation of nonsense has done nothing to make CCR diving safer . Quite the opposite in fact .
    Information was at one time freely shared over the internet . That all stopped once adw9 got to polishing he's court shoes at every opportunity.
    Leave the list up as a reminder of he's contribution to the CCR community.
    Last edited by gobfish1; 14-09-2021 at 02:29 AM.
    None diver as of 2018.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdeadyet View Post
    My personal favourite was the dead cave diver who got listed as a fatality while the search for him was still ongoing.
    Cant understand why, He was still dead so I fixed it for you.

    My personal favorate is listing all the folk I knew and wondering why they never managed to live out the allocated threescore years and ten.
    Then I make a list of all the AP Valves fatalities with the folk I knew and consider why they match up so well

    Then for a more accurate figure under the heading "Rebreather Involved" under the line title "Unknown", you have to just insert APD or Insiration for a more accurate figure. All in the interest of science, medical integrity transparency and truth you understand.

    https://www.opensafetyglobal.com/Saf...ase_100725.xls
    Last edited by iain/hsm; 13-09-2021 at 08:08 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    I have not looked at the list for ages the one incident on it I knew much about was so inaccurate it lost all credibility for the rest.

    Graham.
    Do you make all you life choices on that basis? or just this one in particular. While that's one way of putting it did you ever consider so much for offering a correction.

    "We have been making dive equipment since 1969, and always knew the potential for a lawsuit, so when the dreaded American lawsuit came in 2004, one day before the statute of limitations ran out, it was really one of those things that "we knew would happen one day." The sad fact is that there are around 400 diving deaths globally, and just over 100 of those are in the U.S. Approximately 20 occur worldwide while using rebreathers of various makes. 18 of which we manufacture". Author Unknown.

  7. #97
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    Mods, can the detour to highlighting the novel be seperated out so as not to conflate the 2 please.
    JJ wanker

  8. #98
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Cant understand why, He was still dead so I fixed it for you.
    You never fixed anything. The diver was listed as a fatality while the rescue effort was still ongoing, before it was known he was dead and before his body had been found. The cave had areas of dry passage so was entirely possible that he could have been stuck in one of these sections. That's why no announcement was made one way or the other until the search was completed. The authors of the spreadshite were so desperate to attribute another death to further their cause that they couldn't even bother waiting for the death to be confirmed or even to find out if he was using CCR. Missing was good enough for them.

    Wasn't there at least one death on it where the diver wasn't even on a rebreather? Maybe the inference is that if he'd been on Deas's fantasy unit he'd have been OK.

    For pretty much a decade the Inspiration was the dominant rebreather for recreational divers by a massive factor. It was also the first time that rebreathers and rebreather training were being made available and affordable to the average diver. The learning curve was massive and in retrospect a lot of what was taught seems naive now. Stands to reason that Inspiration fatalities are going to be huge. If 9 out of 10 cars were Fords then Fords would dominate the accident figures.
    Last edited by notdeadyet; 13-09-2021 at 09:37 PM.
    Caliph Hamish Aw-Michty Ay-Ya-Bastard, Spiritual leader of Scottish State in England

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Not my list but feel free to pass the above to them directly or even just document where all the above formal accident investigation data is. That draws its conclusions, obviously supported by formal testing of the specific rebreathers is question; as to identify the root causes of the fatality or fatalities in the multiple dual cases and I’ll pass it on.
    If this load of nonsense actually reflected the standard of inquiry / investigation required for information to make it into the root cause determination very few of the entries would have any determinations made. Basically what you are saying is that DL can insert any speculation they like, but objectors need the results of a formal inquiry to get it changed. Moreover, as pointed out previously, even the results of formal inquiries don't cut it unless they agree with the DL speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    For Alex to be making iCCR controllers, that would imply that the iCCR had a “controller”.
    What do you call the thing that controls the auto-bailout function?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Alex is however busy with the initial production of the new display that the iCCR will ship with amongst a few other products and I look forward to test-diving that shortly.
    New display? Does that mean the diver is going to be able to read their PO2 readings for themselves instead of having an elevator voice reciting it to them periodically? If so, I suppose having delayed for 10 years you will be hoping that no one will remember how you rubbished the idea of divers being able to look at the PO2 on a handset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Shipping units in 2009 would have been great if it hadn’t taken 2 years for the CE audit to the full requirements of EN14143 to go through all of the paperwork.
    Yes Brad, but its still 10 years since that paperwork was completed, and maybe you shouldn't have said that units were shipping if they weren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Not that anything on any of the units DeepLife or Open Safety have ever submitted for CE, inclusive of the iCCR, have ever needed to have anything changed to pass cleanly. Up to something like 7 individual rebreather lines at this point and growing.
    Yes, well you will have to forgive me for being unimpressed with that process given it failed to detect the life-threatening fault with your manual oxygen add button and appeared not to appreciate the testing required for validation of end tidal CO2 measurement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    But funny you mention rebreathers being produced for 20 years having the potential to be slagged off, as I note that your favourite https://gue.com/blog/rtc-launches-ne...ty-initiative/ have only just realised or at least publicly admitted through action if not words directly, that since 2003 CE certification has called for a gag strap or MRS as a mandatory inclusion in order to pass audit against either of the ratified CE standards: EN14143:2003 or :2013.
    I completely agree with you (and the standard) that rebreathers should have mouthpiece retaining devices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Well “the end tidal CO2 readings derived by the iCCR to measurements made using external end tidal CO2 monitoring with gas sampled at the mouth (during use by human subjects)” were conducted over a decade ago. That .pdf made for a good read.
    No they were not, and no it doesn't. I have pointed out to you many times that your pdf does not report the required experiment. That is a simple and indisputable fact which you either don't understand or choose to ignore. The template for the required experiment is provided in our paper that disproved your original proposed technique for measuring end tidal CO2.

    Simon M
    Last edited by simon mitchell; 14-09-2021 at 08:43 AM.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Do you make all you life choices on that basis? or just this one in particular. While that's one way of putting it did you ever consider so much for offering a correction.
    No I have not offered to make a correction as I know others who tried at the time and were ignored.
    I make life choices after making an opinion. I base my opinion on the available evidence. Having listened to Alex gob off at Eurotec, looked for but never seen the the fully controlled CCR for less than a £1000, read the list and know at least one incident is wrong my opinion is the list can not be relied on if you want to analyse rebreather deaths.

    Graham.


 
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