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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Yes. Why does a manufacturer have to make available anything at a published retail price? And what is fair? The days of retail prices have long gone, the Internet saw that old fashioned nonsense go a long time back.

    Whilst I agree that people who wish to do their own service should be free to do so I see no reason that any manufacturer should be required to price the spare parts at a price that makes that an attractive thing to do. People have consistently voted against that sort of market interference for the last 50 years. Why should my pastime be any different?
    Chris, dont you dare start going off on one here, please no.

    Let me make this smooth and easy

    1.When your looking for the new MTX or any other Apeks marine product how come every single LDS retailer advertising each specific product at the self same price as all the other UK retailers advertising. The self same product at the self same price.

    2. Then ask yourself why.

    3. Then consider does it matter if we call it a Published Retail Price, or a Suggested Retail Price, Or An inforced sell it any cheaper and we will shut your credit account down Price

    4. Then ask yourself why.

    I dont really mind what you would like to call it please make a suggestion and I will use it. Iain

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonhi99 View Post
    Lowly path...more like a lonely path as an independant. I won't divulge the actual price or my sources, but for a 1st and 2 x 2nd stage kits 35-40.
    There's the rub. Now ask yourself why.

    Also why are you being ripped off by your un named supplier for 35 to 40 for the two spares kit

    I have had many of my posts removed or "moderated" in fact only last week I had I think eight posts removed from scubaboard most were on one thread also with the resultant force to comply, and threat of being excommunicated etc.

    But I have only once removed a post myself on behalf of a manufactureres request.
    That was from a conversation from the the Chairman of the Aqualung group France for showing a photograph of a prototype military product here on TDF that in all fairness I should not have published prior to launch and should have known better.

    So far on this thread its so far so good and with no "waves" from over the channel so I think we are still good to go with asking of the spares kits the situation and the pricing. But it would be great if someone would break the ice and publish the flipping price list and not leave it for me to do it for you all. Hope dies last. Iain
    Last edited by iain/hsm; 20-04-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  3. #83
    TDF Member simonhi99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    So far on this thread its so far so good and with no "waves" from over the channel so I think we are still good to go with asking of the spares kits the situation and the pricing. But it would be great if someone would break the ice and publish the flipping price list and not leave it for me to do it for you all.
    Good luck with that, just like this new European Super League - don't get me started! It's a closed shop, no-one is going to stick their heads above the parapet.

    I don't have a price list, I only know what I pay, and I have no idea if that is anywhere near the actual price I suspect not.

  4. #84
    Established TDF Member witchieblackcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    My worth to the forum you can count on each and every post I made on topic accurate and informative
    I am sure we all evaluate your worth with each and every post you make as you belittle people.

  5. #85
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Chris, dont you dare start going off on one here, please no.

    Let me make this smooth and easy

    1.When your looking for the new MTX or any other Apeks marine product how come every single LDS retailer advertising each specific product at the self same price as all the other UK retailers advertising. The self same product at the self same price.

    2. Then ask yourself why.

    3. Then consider does it matter if we call it a Published Retail Price, or a Suggested Retail Price, Or An inforced sell it any cheaper and we will shut your credit account down Price

    4. Then ask yourself why.

    I dont really mind what you would like to call it please make a suggestion and I will use it. Iain
    It is a "don't sell it any cheaper or we stop your franchise price". Why? Because the retailers all want to cut each other's throats and everyone that buys it can see it cheaper on the internet. I just don't understand why anyone thinks scuba gear is different to any other commodity. There is a cost price to which you add a margin. The small retailer cannot get the best prices and that is just how it is. Manufacturers cost price plus 10% is the de facto retail price and you can either sell it at that or it sits on the shelf and the customer buys from the Internet.

    Is it a racket? Yes, if you want to see it that way. Will it change? No. Will scuba regulator repair kits be discounted? Probably not as there is not enough demand for them and so no incentive to do so. Computer printers are on a similar model - sell the printer cheap and make the margin on the consumables. Then it becomes a race to get the cheapest printer as the consumables are the profit. You can even lose money on the printer if you can get the buyer to buy your consumables.

    Do I agree with it? No. Do I care? Not much. It is what it is.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonhi99 View Post
    I don't have a price list, I only know what I pay, and I have no idea if that is anywhere near the actual price I suspect not.
    That's the kicker. I do have a price list but its a massive Excel spreadsheet showing all the parts in numerical order as a PDF
    If printed its around 1300 pages and includes all the Aqualung America stuff as well as Apeks Marine and the French stuff.

    Everything from pages of 0-rings to an ATX/Tx 2nd stage cover. The Apeks Marine parts start at around page 130

    The service Kit AP0241 that is the 1st stage kit complete with the HP seat, the bronze cone filter, 16x 0-rings
    the 1st stage diaphragm and the two plastic back up plates is listed as follows:

    APEKS AP0241/AA Diaphragm 1st Stage Repair Kit CAT Price $29.99 Discount 40% Net Price $17.99 thats about 13 UK pricing


    The 2nd stage kit is listed as 2nd stage reair kit for TX,ATX XTX scuba regulator
    consisting of 10 orings and a small polymer 2nd stage LP seat

    APEKS AP0219/AA SERVICE KIT Tx/ATX 2ND STAGE CAT Price $17.99 Discount 40% Net Price $10.79 thats about 7.99 UK pricing



    So around 21 for us lot unwashed and around 25 with the VAT. Now I know It's pricing for profesional and commercial divers. But its a flipping published price list
    so it cant be that difficult to publish a Suggested Resale or whatever you wish to call it retail price list for the UK sports diver now can it.
    Or do I do an Exel dump and include while we are at it the Distributor Pricing or even the American Jobbers Price List that real special low price for for those service and repair guys back home on the ranch.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Manufacturers cost price plus 10% is the de facto retail price.
    Please Chris stick with your wild ass guess posts about politics. I dont need opinion here I only want a published end user price list

    But you missed a zero out on that its a 100% from factory to trade (dive shop) with another 50% added on to retail. With some of the favoured dive shops getting an additional discount the rank and file slatwall folk dont get. also with a 30% additional for the top 10 retailers or if paying cash with order or on a retail model push.
    I will publish the price lists if we dont get the spares sorted but for now the powder is dry.

    Now maybe after the debarcle of Simply Scuba going into liquidation owing Apeks 45,000 for non payment of stuff
    Maybe that's how they intend to get the money back, bill it all onto the spares kits.
    That and adding Dive Life going down owing 3000. Before popping up again in the wifes name as a premier dealer. Go figure.
    Whatever happend to Samantha and Just Apeks I wonder.

    Its not a racket it will change I trust, for reasons I may bring up later

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchieblackcat View Post
    I am sure we all evaluate your worth with each and every post you make as you belittle people.
    Well even Graham HK liked you post. I guess I should too.

    Just a shame you have nothing on topic to say.

    But your way off. I have never belittled people on this or any other forum.
    By example take a look at the Graham HK posts on this thread regarding insulting trash what do you think I should do?
    Be nice and bend over for him? or reply in a measured robust and humorous manner.

    Stop wasting my time either add to the forum post with something relevent to the thread or piss off and wait on on the porch
    for the rest of us to finish.

    With many thanks for your valued submission and opinion that is. Iain
    Last edited by iain/hsm; 20-04-2021 at 04:20 PM.

  9. #89
    TDF Member simonhi99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    That's the kicker. I do have a price list but its a massive Excel spreadsheet showing all the parts in numerical order as a PDF
    If printed its around 1300 pages and includes all the Aqualung America stuff as well as Apeks Marine and the French stuff.

    Everything from pages of 0-rings to an ATX/Tx 2nd stage cover. The Apeks Marine parts start at around page 130

    The service Kit AP0241 that is the 1st stage kit complete with the HP seat, the bronze cone filter, 16x 0-rings
    the 1st stage diaphragm and the two plastic back up plates is listed as follows:

    APEKS AP0241/AA Diaphragm 1st Stage Repair Kit CAT Price $29.99 Discount 40% Net Price $17.99 thats about 13 UK pricing


    The 2nd stage kit is listed as 2nd stage reair kit for TX,ATX XTX scuba regulator
    consisting of 10 orings and a small polymer 2nd stage LP seat

    APEKS AP0219/AA SERVICE KIT Tx/ATX 2ND STAGE CAT Price $17.99 Discount 40% Net Price $10.79 thats about 7.99 UK pricing



    So around 21 for us lot unwashed and around 25 with the VAT. Now I know It's pricing for profesional and commercial divers. But its a flipping published price list
    so it cant be that difficult to publish a Suggested Resale or whatever you wish to call it retail price list for the UK sports diver now can it.
    Or do I do an Exel dump and include while we are at it the Distributor Pricing or even the American Jobbers Price List that real special low price for for those service and repair guys back home on the ranch.
    So with two 2nd stage kits that's roughly 35 inc VAT, so not wildy off what I paid.

  10. #90
    Established TDF Member Timw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    No that is not what I said.

    FYI and to answer just this specific misunderstanding

    1. Apeks Marine buy around 10,000, O-rings of each size at a time.

    2. From new they know both the compound (polymer) material used, the shore hardness, the batch number and the Cure Date (Date of manufacture)

    3. Each batch is kept separate and the oldest batch sold or used first in production.

    4. The QA (Quality Assurance) documentation of Apeks Marine has documented the allowable shelf life of each of the polymers used from new (in years)

    5. If any material batch exceeds that documented Shelf Life it is isolated and disposed of.


    Now by contrast you as "Jimmy Diver" roll up to your local grease ball Hydraulics shop looking for a couple of O-rings that fit your busted second stage with only the words "Do you have this in Viton" dont be surprised that the hydraulic spec 0-ring your sold can be up to and even over 10 years old before your greasy palms get to sweat all over them. And you still have no idea of the compound, batch, or date of manufacture.
    Hence Ebay a great place to flog out of date or out of size O-rings to the broken hearted.

    Remember "Beaver Sports" and those special green O-rings so out of spec you could see the joint line from the ancient tooling in China they used to make with.

    Further being forced down the route of either using your LDS under the shelf or Ebay or the German equivalent of "Kraut's R Us" to buy our spares kits at some point it grinds the gears if you get my drift. And opens up the possibility of either dive shop under the shelf or eBay or Krauts R US making up the spares kits from old parts and stuff found dropped on the LDS floor and stuffed into old empty APEKS MARINE GENUINE PARTS KIT zip lock bags.

    Hope it cleared up the misunderstanding.
    Not really Ian. I expressed disbelief that Apeks would have o rings sat around long enough to sell on at 10 years old. You've just confirmed what I said- If they only buy 10,000 at a time and rotate their stock as you say above, they won't have 10 year old stock to flog on in service kits. That would mean using <1000/year or their supplier is sending them very old stock in the first place - the last lot of traceable o rings I bought were 3 months old at delivery and I didn't buy in bulk.
    The rest of your reply is your usual condescending and bitter agenda against Apeks. I've said this before - you have a lot of knowledge and share it but usually tainted by your unpleasant attitude to the rest of the diving world.
    Tea Boy


 
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