Mouthpiece retainer strap

[Chimp]

Just sat in on an interesting BSAC webex on rebreather safety and wondered how many rebreather divers are using a Mouthpiece Retainer Strap?

[graham_hk]

Mouthpiece retainers are in my opinion completely pointless - over 100s of personal hours and many rebreather students I have notice you are much more likely to need to get loop out of your mouth that you are to need it kept. Many people cite going unconscious and that a retainer would save you - but miss the point that somebody needs to save you either way. You have to work pretty hard to go hypoxic on a rebreather and it'd be much better to develop skills and awareness and dive in a better team than put a strap on your mouth piece.

[colinicky]

My rEvo came with a gag strap & initially I hated it but came to love it. Grahams point is very well made though it does take more to remove it safely without your mask being ripped of at the same time by somebody trying to save you.
But I dive solo 99.9% of the time & with a BOV. If I fall unconscious well maybe I wake up maybe I don’t but I won’t drown !
Anytime I dive loosely with a buddy the instructions are to turn the BOV switch & hope I come round before the gas mix becomes hypoxic

[Vanny]

Just sat in on an interesting BSAC webex on rebreather safety and wondered how many rebreather divers are using a Mouthpiece Retainer Strap?

Very good thought provoking presentation, not really anything I could disagree with in there. I may consider a strap but it needs to be effective.

[dwhitlow]

I have been using the AP strap for 8-9 years.

If correctly adjusted it holds the mouthpiece just where I need it, and there is no need to bite on the mouthpiece to keep the loop in place.

The AP BOV is quite bulky. When scootering without the strap I occasionally found my jaw ached. With the strap there is no such issue.

If I became unconscious, and ended up lying on the seabed, I prefer to consider there might be alternatives other than just sending me to the surface.

Without a gag strap I'd be a light source, lying on the seabed, with a small stream of bubbles coming out of the mouthpiece. That is not a good image.

[Wibs]

All the smug Revo divers voting :-)

I know very little about diving CCR, but I definitely am very happy with the gag strap in place. To remove the mouthpiece when the strap's tight, it rolls out of the mouth pretty easily for bailing out; rolling it downwards just after switching the DSV (which on the Revo is a lever that's moved downwards).

Regarding the presentation - very good, very informative - a lot of the problems seemed to be rooted in not being aware of what's going on, such as monitoring PPO2, old kit, etc. No question that having decent computers - main Petrel and backup Nerd means you've got all the info where you need it.

[JonG]

Mouthpiece retainers are in my opinion completely pointless - over 100s of personal hours and many rebreather students I have notice you are much more likely to need to get loop out of your mouth that you are to need it kept. Many people cite going unconscious and that a retainer would save you - but miss the point that somebody needs to save you either way. You have to work pretty hard to go hypoxic on a rebreather and it'd be much better to develop skills and awareness and dive in a better team than put a strap on your mouth piece.

What do you need to remove the loop for Graham?

I use a gag strap and BOV and wouldn't feel comfortable without either now. At least with both, whoever you are diving with can easily be instructed to just flip the lever in the event of an unconscious incident.

No risk of flooding the unit during a switch, no fumbling for a second stage etc. during a rescue.

In both live bailouts, I've experienced I've been able to stay on the BOV to the exit point.

[WFO]

I use draeger one. I'd still use it even if there were no safety benefits as I find it comfortable.

Mouthpiece retainers are in my opinion completely pointless - over 100s of personal hours and many rebreather students I have notice you are much more likely to need to get loop out of your mouth that you are to need it kept. Many people cite going unconscious and that a retainer would save you - but miss the point that somebody needs to save you either way. You have to work pretty hard to go hypoxic on a rebreather and it'd be much better to develop skills and awareness and dive in a better team than put a strap on your mouth piece.

Graham what possibly gives you the idea that a retaining strap makes it difficult to get the loop out of your mouth? These things aren't lodging the bloody loop right into your gob like something from the S+M shop.

The mouthpiece being retained in a LOC event (hypo or hyper or co2...) has best chance of saving you. Yes you still need rescuing but the odds of that being successful are massively improved (from the near-zero chance without one!)

[WFO]

I know very little about diving CCR,

a lot of the problems seemed to be rooted in not being aware of what's going on, such as monitoring PPO2,

Vast majority of CCR deaths are from same reason "not knowing your ppo2". Nothing to do with old kit, wrong computers anything like that... plenty people with latest electronics etc died because they did something which led to them not knowing their ppo2 be that borrowing a mates unit with years out of date cells, forgetting to turn unit on, forgetting to turn o2 on, silencing a cell warning 3 times.... etc. etc. etc.

(lots of them right near the surface too... I always run my unit as near to pure o2 as possible when near surface, don't need any monitoring at all then, in fact my first home build didn't have any electronics at all. Would definitely recommend trying that, teaches you a lot)

[dwhitlow]

Graham what possibly gives you the idea that a retaining strap makes it difficult to get the loop out of your mouth? These things aren't lodging the bloody loop right into your gob like something from the S+M shop.

Makes sense when you remember Graham is likely to dive his JJ in the GUE configuration, which the questionable addition of a long hose under the loop. Deploying the long hose with a retaining strap in place will introduce the risk of not looking fabulous, a clear rule 6 violation