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  1. #131
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    Jeremy Clarkson made a video about the end of the British car industry would also apply to moter bikes and other manufacturing. Is worth watching.

  2. #132
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    True. Perhaps that hits at the heart of the matter. The manufacturing process needed to change at that point. The #1 missed opportunity. Never really though about that aspect of the engine in that light before.

    Hmmm. Yes. That makes a lot of sense.
    I have seen a prototype Triumph, with a die cast aluminium motor " that never went into production", it was at least as good as anything coming out of Japan.
    They ran with the sand cast crap from the previous 50 years.

    Look at Douglas bikes, manufacture was streets in front of Triumph/Norton.

    Triumph`s head of racing, declared himself against more than four gears in a `box, "as changing gear meant the engine was not supplying drive to the wheel".

    Some years ago we had some involvement with what became the European Championship winning "Battle of the Twins" bike. It was Triumph powered, although well beyond anything Meridan managed to produce.
    We were regularly supplied with engine parts to "check", which normally resulted in a conversation along the lines of "send it back its wrong/crap", "but it`s Weslake", "well it`s weslake crap".
    We sent a set of barrels back once, noting that they were not parallel in any axis; message came back from Weslake, that they were machined on the same machine that Triumph had produced all their barrels on!

    My Father used to spanner a mates 7R at the manx, He sat through a prize winners speech once, where the speaker declared that the Japanese could build small bikes, but the UK would always dominate with bigger bikes.
    Dad noted to his mate that it would be an issue if the Japanese worked out how to bolt a couple of little ones together, few months later my Dad was looking at an early CB in town, when a voice over his shoulder says "looks like they worked it out".
    Why was it that only the guys at the top could not work that out?

    Look at Guzzis and BMW from the early 30s, British bike were behind the curve even then.

    It took a builder to sort the Triumph name out, Norton appears to be magnet for shysters.

  3. #133
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    ...
    My Father used to spanner a mates 7R at the manx, He sat through a prize winners speech once, where the speaker declared that the Japanese could build small bikes, but the UK would always dominate with bigger bikes.
    Dad noted to his mate that it would be an issue if the Japanese worked out how to bolt a couple of little ones together, few months later my Dad was looking at an early CB in town, when a voice over his shoulder says "looks like they worked it out".
    Why was it that only the guys at the top could not work that out?....
    A mate had a 400 four. I remember at the time a lot of people thought it daft to have a four pot bike with such a small capacity. It was a nice machine but the handling was not up to the motor. I think racism was a large part of the reason people did not buy a "rice grinder". Ironically had the UK manufacturers kept pace with the technology there was a huge market here based on national pride. The men at the top never really understood what they were making and selling IMHO.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    A mate had a 400 four.
    Honda I presume? one of the nicest bikes I've ever rode - but then by the time I rode one of those I'd stopped being all-out maniac rider.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Ironically had the UK manufacturers kept pace with the technology there was a huge market here based on national pride. The men at the top never really understood what they were making and selling IMHO.
    Don't forget the B****y company accountants who were more concerned with keeping the share holders divi's high than seeing a good product leave the factory door. And as for R&D well isn't/wasn't the attitude it worked well for the last 20/30/40/50 years so why do we need to redesign something now as that is only more 'Unnecessary' costs.

    That attitude seems to be part of UK psych - in my own profession it's affected by HMG/city thinking - company designed a product in house from a collection of bought in units, had trial units in various parts of the national company. When proved to be both a working, stable and salable unit the employer setup to manufacture another 85 units then a government office stepped in and told the company to sell the manufacture to a supplier (although the/my employer could keep the IPR). So that was sold on and guess where the units were made? - the supplier then sub-contracted our (my employer) workshop were we had setup to make the units to make the units for them to sell back to us... How F**king stupid is that !
    Last edited by F.P.; 02-02-2021 at 12:09 PM.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    True. Perhaps that hits at the heart of the matter. The manufacturing process needed to change at that point. The #1 missed opportunity. Never really though about that aspect of the engine in that light before.

    Hmmm. Yes. That makes a lot of sense.
    It didn't change until triumph went to hinckley and they started building their own take on Japanese style engines but with suspension more suited to british fat bastards which were pretty good. The modern 675 triumphs have out-jappaned the Japanese... although they've got it all made in Thailand to do it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    A mate had a 400 four. I remember at the time a lot of people thought it daft to have a four pot bike with such a small capacity. It was a nice machine but the handling was not up to the motor. I think racism was a large part of the reason people did not buy a "rice grinder". Ironically had the UK manufacturers kept pace with the technology there was a huge market here based on national pride. The men at the top never really understood what they were making and selling IMHO.
    My mate was telling me about how the old boys slagged off his "Jap crap" then later he waved as he was riding past them broken down...
    The handling of jap stuff took a while to catch up with their engines. My 1135EFE was terrifying in quite a fun way, the 1100K was better handling but faster (so about as scary). By the time of 1990 GSXRs the 750 was like a scalpel

    The men at the top were accountants, strikes me as same way a lot of it goes down when British firms got too big and lost sight of wtf they were trying to actually achieve.
    Last edited by WFO; 02-02-2021 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #136
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFO View Post
    It didn't change until triumph went to hinckley and they started building their own take on Japanese style engines but with suspension more suited to british fat bastards which were pretty good. The modern 675 triumphs have out-jappaned the Japanese... although they've got it all made in Thailand to do it...



    My mate was telling me about how the old boys slagged off his "Jap crap" then later he waved as he was riding past them broken down...

    The men at the top were accountants, strikes me as same way a lot of it goes down when British firms got too big and lost sight of wtf they were trying to actually achieve.
    That would be the builder (Bloor) that I mentioned sorting Triumph out.

  7. #137
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.P. View Post
    Honda I presume? one of the nicest bikes I've ever rode - but then by the time I rode one of those I'd stopped being all-out maniac rider....
    Yes, I still remember it - dark blue. Nice little bike. He traded up to a CB750 but was never a balls-out rider. I had a CB500T at the time and it was pretty decent as best I remember.

    Quote Originally Posted by WFO
    ... The modern 675 triumphs have out-jappaned the Japanese... although they've got it all made in Thailand to do it......
    Basically a Kawa. I had a 955i ST. I really liked it - the engine matched the touring part of the ST. Sadly an old bike and the lights were shit. I mean shit, not just poor, downright shit. If I had thrown a grand or two at it it could have been good but it really wasn't worth it. Had intended to do France on it but the lights then the referendum. Have a GSX650F now. It is OK but the handling is not sharp. My old GSXR750 would have run rings round it. Less likely to lose my licence though

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    That would be the builder (Bloor) that I mentioned sorting Triumph out.
    Big John. Funny that a person with no bike background could re-invent the British bike industry by copying the Japanese. I have to say the new Triumphs seem to me to be all nostalgia and no real innovation. Replica Bonnies and bobbers. The big triumph dealer near us had a showroom full of wanabee Harley looky likey things. Maybe just reflective of the (twat) population round here? They went bust first lockdown, 1.2 mill "disappeared". Same management team now in same building under a new name. HMRC licking its wounds....

    Norton bust twice now IIRC? Dodgy too.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFO View Post
    Perkins still a popular industrial and marine engine. No idea where they make them. Probably not the midlands. They are good though, we use a little 3 pot one on the winch for the gaping gill..
    Still in Peterborough, owned by Caterpillar making a heap of blue engines for all sorts of companies as well as yellow ones for Cat machines.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Basically a Kawa.
    Really? How so?
    The suspension can't be kawa derived as it doesn't break your arse :-D

    Engines are a different layout as well notwithstanding having one cylinder missing off the end?
    (can go through a bunch of differences if you want me to show how much of a sad bastard I really am...)

    No complaint about the nostalgia bikes here, they look good but might be more reliable than the original shit? Each to their own. Rather than than yet another completely impractical "factory streetfighter"* with a stupid tiny arse end on it that jetwashes your arse if you ride through a puddle and doesn't give you anywhere to strap a tent and enough booze for a full weekend.

    *go crash a sportsbike yourself you cheating bastards it's not a 'fighter if you didn't lose blood doing it...

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    That would be the builder (Bloor) that I mentioned sorting Triumph out.
    Aye, it's good to see them being popular again. I really had a soft spot for the 900 speed trip and 955i daytona. New ones not to my taste really but to each his own.

    Modern crankcases etc (and probably most of the rest of the bike) rather than the sand cast shit triumph were using... how are they made? I get the feeling they're pressure die cast?


 
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