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  1. #91
    Bananas! Chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    OK I have made another list based purely on your questions. Please take a look over it and tell me if Iv'e got it about correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    And you have the cheek to say Ian's reply was rambling! Wow!

    Anyway, what you actually asked was "Who cares", why is it important.

    That's been answered, quite a few times, by different people.

    So what's the problem, what's wrong with the answers given?

    And why do you care so much that other people care? Why does the idea of this bother you so much?
    Thanks guys for not answering the question yet again

    Or was it this?

    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Just to cheer up all those who think the UK donít manufacture divers equipment
    If so I was already quite cheerful, but nice of you to try
    Believe it or not, bananas do contain a small quantity of Musa Sapientum bananadine, which is a mild, short-lasting psychedelic

  2. #92
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    So what's the problem, what's wrong with the answers given?

    And why do you care so much that other people care? Why does the idea of this bother you so much?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
    Thanks guys for not answering the question yet again
    Er, what?

    You post up a quote from me, asking you three very clear questions. You then totally ignore the questions, and in the same breath go on to accuse me of not answering your questions??? (which additionally, I have answered fairly comprehensively as far as I'm concerned)

    Well, that's pretty novel, a blatant and in your face obliteration of reality worthy of trump itself.

    Thought for the day : Perhaps we should adopt that as a new adjective, e.g

    - I call trump on that one; wow, that's a right trumper etc

    It would be a fitting honour to the Master himself, who showed us how much further we could take the not so subtle but highly creative art of spinning alternative facts, if we just put that little bit of extra effort in.
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  3. #93
    Bananas! Chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    Er, what?
    Indeed!!
    We're now onto Trump?
    Believe it or not, bananas do contain a small quantity of Musa Sapientum bananadine, which is a mild, short-lasting psychedelic

  4. #94
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
    Indeed!!
    We're now onto Trump?
    And still, you fail to answer the questions.....
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  5. #95
    Bananas! Chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    And still, you fail to answer the questions..... !
    You answered my question with more questions??
    But, just to show a bit of willing in the hope you'll maybe respond in kind and give a straight answer to my question, here's my answers to yours:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    And you have the cheek to say Ian's reply was rambling! Wow!
    I thought my post was quite lucid, but YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    Anyway, what you actually asked was "Who cares", why is it important.
    That's been answered, quite a few times, by different people.
    No it hasn't, that's why I'm asking. Feel free to post up some quotes though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    So what's the problem, what's wrong with the answers given?
    If I knew what they were I'd maybe not have a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    And why do you care so much that other people care?
    I don't, I just want to know WHY they care? Why is it important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    Why does the idea of this bother you so much?
    Idea of what? Not understanding why a list of dive equipment 'Made in the UK" (whatever the fuck that means nowadays) is important to people? It only bothers me in that I don't get why it's important and you won't tell me.
    Last edited by Chimp; 12-01-2021 at 08:36 AM.
    Believe it or not, bananas do contain a small quantity of Musa Sapientum bananadine, which is a mild, short-lasting psychedelic

  6. #96
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
    No it hasn't, that's why I'm asking. Feel free to post up some quotes though.
    Here's various quotes from this thread explaining why "people care", some in direct response to your own posts, which you've then go on to reply to.

    Obviously context is lost a bit, but hey, put a bit of effort in yourself, you'll be able to sort that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    Given a choice of two equal quality etc products, one manufactured in the UK, the other elsewhere, I'd opt for the UK manufacturer.

    So yes, AFAIC, good to know
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    Bit of a vague question, don't you think?

    But simply put, I have no objection to paying a reasonable amount more for "local" produce, be that British manufactured diving kit, or a slab of beef from the butcher at the bottom of the road etc
    Quote Originally Posted by colinicky View Post
    Probably at the same price point of buying said item from your local dive shop or buying off the internet for same item ?
    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    No I don't think its vague at all ... I try to buy British (English even better) produce at local shops, I even got some English and Welsh made clothes so I get the sentiment and was genuinely interested at what point "made in UK" becomes unsustainable. I don't think anybody could live on products made solely in UK and many things its difficult to identify origin.

    Here are some specifics:
    Wing/bp made in USA 500, made in china 150 assuming equal dealer support what is the choice. How much more than the Chinese brand would you pay for a made in UK brand? Would you pay more or less for than the US brand for UK?
    UK brand made in Thailand wetsuit - is there any premium there?

    Anybody else got any examples? I currently dive a DUI but I think my next suit will be a UK brand
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    Ah, OK, apologies, but still a bit difficult for me to answer.

    For me at least, it'd be on a case by case basis, so really would depend on what I was buying, what for, the choices available etc.

    In the example of the backplate and wing, I'd honestly expect the chinese offering to be of inferior quality, lower grade metal etc, so wouldn't even consider it as a viable option. Any difference in price would therefore be between US, EU and UK brands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    You've made that jump, nobody else has said it, there are plenty of reasons to but UK/local beyond just perceived quality. Avoiding unnecessary CO2 footprint, better access to support and returns, a simple desire to support UK businesses to name just a few ... but even if it was based on a belief that the UK product would be higher quality, that 's not xenophobia, it's simply faith in UK production quality. Would you call a German xenophobic for having pride in German engineering, or Japanese or Chinese for having faith and loyalty to Japanese or Chinese optics?
    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    I agree with much of what you write in the post I have clipped this from. A simple desire to support a UK business is noble and again I agree - but where do you place UK business (maybe employing many people and paying lots of taxes) distributing a foreign brand?


    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    We do that all the time, don't we? It's pretty much unavoidable.

    All other things equal, I'd rather buy a UK brand when feasible, affordable, viable and available, next choice a non UK brand from a UK retailer.

    I really try and avoid buying (as a consumer) from overseas as much as possible, have done for years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    All things being equal, I'd buy from a UK manufacturer. Maybe it's a misplaced pride in my country.

    However, it's a little more green, it also means the employees are treated reasonably - working hours, H&S, min wages. More than that it means tax paid in the UK; jobs and employment kept in the UK; and arguably better manufacturer support (bit weak that one...)

    Some (most) Chinese stuff is made to a price and is therefore crap. A lot of this Chinese crap is brought in and branded up as being kwalityee. An awful lot of this Chinese crap is sold without any UK tax being paid (eBay, Amazon, AliBarber...). There's little or no support either. And it falls to pieces (4 dive torches).

    Of course there's lots of absolutely top quality Chinese manufactured goods. iPhones and many many more iThings.


    It really gets my goat that we've ended up exporting jobs and skills to China (and other far-eastern, cheap labour) places. We've pretty much lost the skills to manufacture anything. Once that goes, the design and engineering skills go. The money follows as a haemorrhage from "here" to China and the bastards then lend it back to us. Over time we end up as the crap-hole that all the Europhiles said we are.

    Have that song in my head from Fascinating Aieda - Cheap Shit... We kind of deserve all we get.
    So back to you. You're the only one that seems to not want this thread to exist, have even gone as far as suggesting that it's xenophobic. So what's your problem with the idea, why do you think it's bad?
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  7. #97
    #keepittea ebt's Avatar
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    Does it really matter?

    At the end of the day it's just a list. You can choose what you do with the knowledge.

    I'd like it to include the UK suit manufacturers, but at least it isnt pushing misinformation to forward an industry changing agenda like the deeplife/OSEL rubbish.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebt View Post
    Does it really matter?

    At the end of the day it's just a list. You can choose what you do with the knowledge.

    I'd like it to include the UK suit manufacturers, but at least it isnt pushing misinformation to forward an industry changing agenda like the deeplife/OSEL rubbish.
    You make an important distinction here in that "we all choose what we do with knowledge"
    It doesnt however give us wisdom but it does in some small way impart to an informed choice.

    Also consider those of us with knowledge of the diving industry can choose to share it or not. Respecting any confidentiality agreements made leaving the recipient to take the information onboard, discard it as they wish, or complain about it even up to the point of theatening legal action I guess.
    What you and they cant do is contest it. It is a fact unlike these other subjects on the forum of late regarding say American politics.

    I have however reconsidered some on the original list and based on two complaints on the forum and will remove Deeplife from the rebreather list not because they are not a manufacturer and also Divex as they both really dont supply to the recreational public.

    I will also remove Lumb lead weights in keeping with the above and comments from Beaver Sports wanting to be added to the lead weight section. The lead weight from Beaver are manufacturered by Sea Pearls an American manufacturer and although Lumb Bros do make weights with everything else on the web site being imported junk form China maybe better not to confuse any member and remove them.

    The list does matter its where we are with British Made Divers Equipment.
    As I stated before wet suit and dry suit companies were not included for the reasons I stated earlier. Its a work in progress any additions would be greatfully recieved.
    Last edited by iain/hsm; 12-01-2021 at 11:55 AM.

  9. #99
    Bananas! Chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    You're the only one that seems to not want this thread to exist
    Really? Where have I said that? Is that not a bit of a jump?

    Asking questions and not immediately agreeing with all I read here doesn't mean I don't want the thread to exist. A bit of discussion and debate (without getting personal or making too many disparaging remarks) is what I hoped this forum was about.

    I don't care if the thread exists or not, I would just like to know WHY it exists. Why is a list (with no clear criteria for inclusion, or definition of what "Made in the UK" actually means) so important to you? You still haven't really answered that. You allude to some obvious meaning that everyone else except me gets (which is definitely not any of the previous guesses I've made, apparently), a few nudges and winks here and there, and some indignation that I'm even asking, but not a straight answer. Now I'm just getting the old "put some effort in" and "do what you want with the 'information'" chesnuts. Could I ask you to maybe "put a bit of effort in" and actually just write a wee post saying clearly why you think it's so important to have a list of 'British Made Divers Equipment'? Once I know why it's important to you I'll maybe decide it's important to me too? Once I know the reason maybe then I can decide what I want to do with the 'information'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    So what's your problem with the idea, why do you think it's bad?
    Another jump. I've never said it was bad. I conjectured as to the reasons why I thought this list had been posted and why, if I was correct, that would be bad (imo), but you responded to say I was mistaken. That I'd made a 'jump'. That the purpose of the list wasn't as I had guessed. I've offered further thoughts and guesses (as I'm still none the wiser about WHY this list is so important to you) and you've knocked them all down. I've asked repeatedly for you or OP to give me a straight answer and it's still not happened. Just getting "it will be bad for you" if you don't care, and "you're the only one who feels like this" so you must be wrong blah blah blah.

    What's the big secret? What am I not getting here?

    Again, just to be clear...I don't really give a toss about this thread or if it exists or not. I'm just intrigued why it's so important to you and what the underlying reason is if it isn't any of the guesses I've made?
    Last edited by Chimp; 15-01-2021 at 09:26 AM.
    Believe it or not, bananas do contain a small quantity of Musa Sapientum bananadine, which is a mild, short-lasting psychedelic

  10. #100
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    Why I would attach some importance to it is I am a UK manufacturer (not dive kit) and it's nice to know where other people are still managing to make stuff.


 
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