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  1. #101
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
    Really? Where have I said that? Is that not a bit of a jump?

    Asking questions and not immediately agreeing with all I read here doesn't mean I don't want the thread to exist. A bit of discussion and debate (without getting personal or making too many disparaging remarks) is what I hoped this forum was about.

    I don't care if the thread exists or not, I would just like to know WHY it exists. Why is a list (with no clear criteria for inclusion, or definition of what "Made in the UK" actually means) so important to you? You still haven't really answered that. You allude to some obvious meaning that everyone else except me gets (which is definitely not any of the previous guesses I've made, apparently), a few nudges and winks here and there, and some indignation that I'm even asking, but not a straight answer. Now I'm just getting the old "put some effort in" and "do what you want with the 'information'" chesnuts. Could I ask you to maybe "put a bit of effort in" and actually just write a wee post saying clearly why you think it's so important to have a list of 'British Made Divers Equipment'? Once I know the reason maybe then I can decide what I want to do with the 'information'?


    Another jump. I've never said it was bad. I conjectured as to the reasons why I thought this list had been posted and why, if I was correct, that would be bad (imo), but you responded to say I was mistaken. That I'd made a 'jump'. That the purpose of the list wasn't as I had guessed. I've offered further thoughts and guesses (as I'm still none the wiser about WHY this list is so important to you) and you've knocked them all down. I've asked repeatedly for you or OP to give me a straight answer and it's still not happened. Just getting "it will be bad for you" if you don't care, and "you're the only one who feels like this" so you must be wrong blah blah blah.

    What's the big secret? What am I not getting here?

    Again, just to be clear...I don't really give a toss about this thread or if it exists or not. I'm just intrigued why it's so important to you and what the underlying reason is if it isn't any of the guesses I've made?
    Some people prefer to buy British when possible, reasons include:

    - keep trade local/in country, ie supporting your neighbours
    - reducing CO2 impact of imports
    - better customer service, easier route to dispute resolution
    - better quality control, quality assurance, engineering etc in some instances

    All of those reasons have been quoted in my other post.

    For those with a closer eye on things, it will also help with import/export between UK and the EU. UK country of origin goods are tariff free, overseas to UK and exported out won't be.

    So plenty of reasons, covering a wide range of people.
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  2. #102
    Bananas! Chimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    Some people prefer to buy British when possible, reasons include:

    - keep trade local/in country, ie supporting your neighbours
    - reducing CO2 impact of imports
    - better customer service, easier route to dispute resolution
    - better quality control, quality assurance, engineering etc in some instances

    All of those reasons have been quoted in my other post.

    For those with a closer eye on things, it will also help with import/export between UK and the EU. UK country of origin goods are tariff free, overseas to UK and exported out won't be.

    So plenty of reasons, covering a wide range of people.
    Thanks!

    Now I can decide what to do with the information

    P.S. I could give my opinion on your reasons, but I'll spare us both keyboard bashing. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Chimp; 15-01-2021 at 10:42 AM.
    Believe it or not, bananas do contain a small quantity of Musa Sapientum bananadine, which is a mild, short-lasting psychedelic

  3. #103
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
    P.S. I could give my opinion on your reasons, but I'll spare us both keyboard bashing. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    Phew, my keyboards been bashed too much of late
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  4. #104
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
    Thanks!

    Now I can decide what to do with the information

    P.S. I could give my opinion on your reasons, but I'll spare us both keyboard bashing. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    I trust a few more folk take up the same position and decide what to do with the information
    It's not much to do with the information given as a list, it's more just a part of an informed choice process.

    The list as it stands now revised pretty much sums up British Made Divers Equipment.
    In retrospect British Made, Machined, Milled, Moulded, Manufactured and Extruded may have suited some on the forum better but no matter. In general the top three UK firms listed still command the major market share world wide compared to any other manufacturer.

    Rebreathers IMHO were the wild card in the pack, on the basis of the number of genuine UK manufacturers listed I wouldnt have expected so many UK manufactured brands still producting even with removing Divex and Open Safety/OSEL for reasons given earlier.

    Not sure what you disagree on but would be more than happy to explain deeper.

  5. #105
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    I trust a few more folk take up the same position and decide what to do with the information
    It's not much to do with the information given as a list, it's more just a part of an informed choice process.

    The list as it stands now revised pretty much sums up British Made Divers Equipment.
    In retrospect British Made, Machined, Milled, Moulded, Manufactured and Extruded may have suited some on the forum better but no matter. In general the top three UK firms listed still command the major market share world wide compared to any other manufacturer.

    Rebreathers IMHO were the wild card in the pack, on the basis of the number of genuine UK manufacturers listed I wouldnt have expected so many UK manufactured brands still producting even with removing Divex and Open Safety/OSEL for reasons given earlier.

    Not sure what you disagree on but would be more than happy to explain deeper.
    Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, secret squirrel, glug, glug <hic>

  6. #106
    The swimming rodent Treerat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, secret squirrel, glug, glug <hic>
    You called???
    Andy
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    If it moves - canoe it, if it doesn't dive it!

  7. #107
    M.D., Beaver Sports (Yorks) Ltd
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    Just for once I will say Thank You Iain LOL!!!! Yes indeed, sadly there are many areas of equipment like you say Masks, Fins, Snorkels, Knives, just to name a few that sadly have pretty much never been made in the UK. Now I wonder how big the UK list would have been in say 1985, when St. Albans and Leyland and Birmingham being pretty much the neoprene factories for the world and at that time the UK was pretty much the wetsuit factory of the world, oh what a crying shame how that changed. I have many true stories such as making 816 wetsuits for 800 Irish Army and 16 made to measures for the stars in Saving Private Ryan in just over a week, a thousand or so suits supplied every two weeks to Iran and Iraq when they had their war and 500 or so suits to Congo for around two months twice every year for gold divers and many more. In addition, we made bags, weight belts, boots and a whole host of other stuff, as did the likes of Hydrotech, Northern Diver, Namron, Typhoon, DMS, Solent Divers just to name a few, but in time we all got beaten eventually and realised we were flogging a dead horse when China came on the scene, so it was either jump on the band wagon or die, great memories of great days. Cheers, Martin.....

    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    It would be my pleasure I didn't know you manufactured lead weights.
    I had assumed it was Wally Lumb that supplied the UK diving industry with it's lead.
    And for that reason consider yourself included.

    I will also revise the list and add you in together with a couple of others Marlow ropes and I think the cave diver folk for a good balance with DMM. I must be honest I wasnt sure to add Lumb Bros on the list in the first place due the the mass of other imported stuff they do. Similar with yourselves why I didnt include Beaver Sports on the original draft of the list

    It was also this aspect that was the main reason for excluding all the wet suit, dry suit folk.
    I ommited Typhoon and Northern Diver pretty for pretty much for the same reason,

    I'm also having second thoughts about Divex although they manufacture rebreathers in the UK but only for the military so making it look a tad unfair to SMP who as I explained earlier are a fabricator and not a manufacturer. If so then Fibron Bx will also be removed as they are only supporting commercial diving. Open Safety may also be removed to keep the peace.

    Bowstone Products would have made it if they had'nt stopped manufacture.
    Narked at 90 was another consideration and I'm surprised no one suggested them but they are also off the list as now being considered purely an importer distributor.

    I also deliberatly didnt name the UK sub component manufactures in the UK to the dry suit wet suit industry that is until Graham Hong Kong cocked it up. It would have been a much bigger list if I had.

    I do sympathise with you regarding the decimation of the UK dry suit wet suit section of the diving industry by the chinese but also consider a large responcibility for this rest with and was undertaken by the big international players including Aqualung, Scubapro etc with soft goods being supplied from the factories in Vietnam Cambodia Hong Kong and Taiwan not forgetting the Free trade area in Mexico who make fabric components mask wet suits neoprene products and even buoyancy jackets for our American cousins.

    I also couldn't find one single face mask manufacturer in the whole of the UK save one who makes for Poseidon and a full face mask at that go figure. Not a single fin manufacturer also not since Roy Bryant retired and his Sub Aqua Products Jet fin Moulding tool was scrapped.

    I needed to make the list for nothing else than simply to show fellow divers just who is manufacturing British made Diving Equipment in the UK at the start of 2021. Time will tell if anyone gets to make another list next year. Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom. Iain
    Last edited by MW1963; 27-01-2021 at 11:43 PM.

  8. #108
    Gone diving back later Vanny's Avatar
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    We started diving in couple of beaver semi drys , back when “happiness is a wet beaver”. Think the wife recently found them at her mum’s house, doubt I’ll be fitting back into the red and fluorescent green suit now though! 7mm semi did us for a few years. Good memories.

  9. #109
    Pedantic Pig Divemouse's Avatar
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    We still have ours which were mtm in 1998. I can't believe we did Stoney in April in them!
    Definitely don't doubt Dawn - not if you value your life

  10. #110
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1963 View Post
    Just for once I will say Thank You Iain LOL!!!! Yes indeed, sadly there are many areas of equipment like you say Masks, Fins, Snorkels, Knives, just to name a few that sadly have pretty much never been made in the UK. Now I wonder how big the UK list would have been in say 1985, when St. Albans and Leyland and Birmingham being pretty much the neoprene factories for the world and at that time the UK was pretty much the wetsuit factory of the world, oh what a crying shame how that changed. I have many true stories such as making 816 wetsuits for 800 Irish Army and 16 made to measures for the stars in Saving Private Ryan in just over a week, a thousand or so suits supplied every two weeks to Iran and Iraq when they had their war and 500 or so suits to Congo for around two months twice every year for gold divers and many more. In addition, we made bags, weight belts, boots and a whole host of other stuff, as did the likes of Hydrotech, Northern Diver, Namron, Typhoon, DMS, Solent Divers just to name a few, but in time we all got beaten eventually and realised we were flogging a dead horse when China came on the scene, so it was either jump on the band wagon or die, great memories of great days. Cheers, Martin.....

    Just for once let’s not make it the last time LOL. I am still considering a wet suit/dry suit list of UK Sports Diving Apparel manufacturers but its darn difficult to separate out the true manufacturer from the importers distributors and sub contractors.
    Then how to incorporate the sub contractors.

    Take for an example your suggestion of Hydrotech sure they would be classed as a UK manufacturer by most, but that doesn’t account for Biddy Foord of Terrapin wet suits who manufactured for them and for MDE and others. She ended up pretty much doing triathlon stuff until sponsorship from the big Asian suppliers dominated handing our free stuff to the guru’s and the Iron men.

    Similar why Divex would never make it in the Apparel list as a manufacturer albeit most of the stuff is Crabber’s gloves hot water boots and neoprene hot water suit liners and not for scuba but none the less they were manufactured by a lovely lady who ran a different company who’s son was the MD of Divex.

    A list of sub contractors and OEM component manufacturers would be much bigger but as end users can’t buy direct from them and it would break confidentiallity listing them in open forum. Just expanding your point on one of your proposed manufacturers Solent Divers and as another example of how difficult making the list is. The Royal Navy used to procure around 2000 wet suit a year, Jacket, Long John Trousers, Hard sole boots and hood.

    Take this one supplier: Solent Divers
    These were actually made in Oban Scotland by Oban Wetsuits by the lovely Elaina King who moved from Solent Divers to work on the navy contract in Oban, She bought a lovely stone cottahe on the shore and never went back LOL

    Rumour has it that Cliff was more than a little peeved and for those that knew him can well imagine the scene. Now with a partnership agreement of Bill Gourley of GMT Diving Glasgow who owned Oban Wetsuits at the time he and Cliff Hares of Solent Divers went onto sell to the MoD.

    Oban Wetsuits were then sold to Terje Hansen of Helle Hansen fame and went on to make sea survival and helicopter egress suits eventually being adsorbed into the Norway head office and the Oban factory closed.

    Now how do you list that lot as a single manufacturer. It's difficult.

    One other thing to consider is that this is women's work, all the manufacturers listed in the Apparel section of UK manufactured products so far that do the manufacturing are women, that fact needs to be acknowledged.
    Last edited by iain/hsm; 28-01-2021 at 12:19 PM.


 
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