SMB choices for CCR

[Wibs]

I currently dive OC and use a two full size Halcyon SMBs on 60m Apeks spools which I stash in my drysuit pockets and inflate using the drysuit inflation hose. These are pretty neutral in the water and are pretty straightforward to deploy. Have done this for years and hundreds of dives without problems. So far so DIR.

Size matters with SMBs. The boat must see the blob when the sea's rough. As I don’t hang on to the line, leaving it to run though my fingers (or a hand-held double ender to prevent it sawing through my dry gloves), my blob lays flat on the surface.

I bought a KT reel and crack bottle blob and utterly hated it because of the ridiculous weight and size. The overall weight meant that I lost well over a kilo just at the point where I really needed it at the end of the dive. Also hate hanging things off me. Agreed, it’s simple and fast to deploy, but that still doesn’t counter the weight and size. I couldn’t flog them quick enough.

I don’t really care for the spool vs reel argument. Spools are easy and once you’ve sussed how to clip them they are exceedingly reliable (hint, use cave techniques to wind the string round the double ender). I’ve bolloxed reel SMB deployments as often as spool deployments in the past, sending up the jammed reel with the blob more than once.

Am about to transition to CCR. From everything I’ve read and heard, it’s apparent that weighting with CCR is far more critical than with OC, so discarding a kilo or more means adding weight to counteract that, thus effectively diving overweighted for the bottom phase of the dive.

Many people recommend the CO2 crack bottle blobs. There seems to be a limited range of these available, mostly slim formats, and I can only find one "full size" blob which takes two 16g CO2 cylinders, costing about £4/shot (i.e. more than the gas bill!). Obviously two cylinders is bigger than one, so it’s not going to be pocket sized.


I know I’m probably overthinking this (getting a bit nervous of the forthcoming CCR course TBH).

Do many CCR divers use spools and drysuit inflate (or hose from bailout)?
Of those that use reels, how many use lightweight reels and of which variety?
Where do you stash your reels?
Which (big) blobs do you use?
Any people in favour of hose inflation?

[JonG]

I'd say it depends. I have yet to come up on a bag on the CCR mainly due to boat choice (shot/deco station), I carry a crack bottle and lightweight 100m reel set up tho because if you have an issue at depth return to shot maybe unrealistic either due to bailout volume, or severity of issue.

If I need to bag off i want a simple system with min of faff, esp if it's co2 related and gas consumption is thru roof.

It's bulky but sits on a d on my long backplate but before that it clipped to the 1 inch ring on the stage bolt snap.

If you are bagging off because that's the recovery protocol then a spool and bag is fine.

I carry a 100m Hollis Sidewinder in O W set up with a yellow SMB as a backup or to signal for gas, which has become a bit of a universal standard I believe.

[nigel hewitt]

I preferred the ol' crack bottle SMB on a big reel as my main and I had a simple one with a short reel in a pocket to hold a bumpy 6m stop and mark where I was if it failed.
I tended to dive without off board gas, you'll learn the failure drills, so I didn't want to commit to using any of my back gas (2x3L) for that on a routine dive.

[Paulo]

I carry 3 x CO2 DSMBs. 2 x red, 1x yellow.

Not putting a pull on a line when the sea is anything but glass calm is an utterly cockwomble thing to do. How the fuck do you expect a skipper to keep track of you?

Try drifting deco for 90 mins and see how far you travel before coming up to find there us no boat waiting for you

[Paulo]

What CCR have you got? I hope it is something stupid like a Revo.

Great shortage of cells and now you will whinge like fuck about the fact you cannot get 5 + a spare just to be able to get in the water

[jturner]

Speaking for myself:

Do many CCR divers use spools and drysuit inflate (or hose from bailout)?

Not if I can avoid it but if I must, or if I'd doing an inland training dive where I probably won't use it at all. I orally inflate it too.

Of those that use reels, how many use lightweight reels and of which variety?

McMahon compact.

Where do you stash your reels?

On a d-ring, usually the rear stage clip position.

Which (big) blobs do you use?

AP's open bottomed one with the baffle, and a CO2 inflated Aquatec one... mainly the latter. Plenty big enough with one gas cartridge.

Any people in favour of hose inflation?

Who knows? I have used it but it's not that great IME as I worry it might get stuck or jam the valve open on the hose.

[Doomanic]

Any people in favour of hose inflation?

Not on CCR, to much shite down your front as it is, without disconnecting a hose to fill a blob.

16g CO2 blobs (2, red) and a KT Composite Ratchet Reel. 16g CO2 carts can be had for a lot less than 2 quid if you know where to look.

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJOCO216/jobsworth-16g-co2-threaded-cartridge

[gobfish1]

Red and yellow co2 bags and a open end bag 25kg also red . handy for swag or a bag of scollps. One reel 75m of line . If IV got to send it up from deeper I'll be happy for the free ride .
Also a small back up with 15m line on . Have other bags also that could be used if needed . But like to save then for other jobs .

Co2 cylinder and cost .
Divers go on at the cost
Makes me laugh they stick on a new piss condom each dive then try piss to justify the cost .
Co2 cylinder s cost less per
And you probley use a hand full of times each year if that. If your doing long ish deco times you really are better of back to the shot / back on the deco station with others and lots of cylinder around you .
If your doing 3h or less you should be able to hold your own piss . Lol
Put the condom money towards a few co2 cylinders .

Other nice thing I like about them v compact
And a nice slow fill no big pull as it disappeares.
And if your worried about size . Let's just say IV never had a complaint . Blast up a 2nd later if your feelings a little inadequate

[Wibs]

Not putting a pull on a line when the sea is anything but glass calm is an utterly cockwomble thing to do. How the fuck do you expect a skipper to keep track of you?

Try drifting deco for 90 mins and see how far you travel before coming up to find there us no boat waiting for you

Hmm. Food for thought - in a good way as you’re right about the bag just laying on the surface.

Barely want to say this... is DIR wrong about this? There’s two opposing requirements: being neutral in the water, thus being in complete control of one’s buoyancy, and being seen by the skipper from any distance. The latter is far more important on a dive by dive basis, especially for long deco times.

I assume that most of you hang negative under the bag?

[gobfish1]

All that free fall shite just showing off .
First time I ever dived with a gue guy
A looked at him coming up and thought what the fook is that all about . Looks uncomfortable also . If im feeling the cold my take up the position get some air along my back .
10 mins and I'm back to hanging out
Like the stroke I am .
Gue only do it that way to stop them from getting a flat head is the cave.

[Vanny]

AP crack bottle , KT reel and a fecking AP unit. What bleedin useless loon I must be. Does carrying a spool and nice little back up DSMB in me pocket earn me any brownie points?

[witchieblackcat]

I use CO2 bags on a spool in my pocket. If the shot is busy I'll deploy it at 6m after the lazy has been released so we all drift along together. If you buy in bulk a CO2 cartridge will be less than 30p per shot.
I also have a big McMahon re-stringed with a lot of string rather than the standard 50m in case I have to bag off because I didn't make it back to the shot.

Not putting a pull on a line when the sea is anything but glass calm is an utterly cockwomble thing to do. How the fuck do you expect a skipper to keep track of you?

My thoughts entirely.

Hmm. Food for thought - in a good way as you’re right about the bag just laying on the surface.

Barely want to say this... is DIR wrong about this? There’s two opposing requirements: being neutral in the water, thus being in complete control of one’s buoyancy, and being seen by the skipper from any distance. The latter is far more important on a dive by dive basis, especially for long deco times.

I assume that most of you hang negative under the bag?

DIR might not be right.
Just put your hand on it and it'll stand up.
A skipper that I use a lot and does a lot of rally quite deep North Sea stuff has suggested that a vertical DSMB will help him pick me up so mine's vertical.

[Wibs]

My original questions were really aimed at MOD1/2 diving, i.e. typical South Coast or Scapa dives. Malin diving is a long term aspiration, one of the main reasons for the move to CCR.

How common is a deco trapeze? Thus far I’ve never seen nor used one. My longest deco to date was 75mins, most are around 30 mins. The only 'must return to shot' diving is in Dover! Lots to learn and look forward to :-)



Back to blobs... Which CO2 SMBs are the best?

Has anyone tried installing one of the Kent Tooling CO2 firing mechanism into another SMB? Is it possible?

Need to see how MOD1 goes before changing things. The buoyancy difference between OC and CCR does worry me somewhat. Maybe I’m about to discover that effortlessly holding a neutral deco stop is an OC thing and CCRs dirty secret is to use the SMB as a prop.

[Timw]

Don't overthink it and make it easy for yourself.
If you prefer a spool, use it. If you like a reel, use it.

I changed to CO2 blobs when I went CCR so I don't have to piss about inflating from another source. I use Kent reels and the bag stays vertical even when I let go. Horizontal bags are on a par with free ascents and bagging off at 21m - inconsiderate to the poor sod running the boat and trying to second guess where you are. Most S Coast skippers want you to bag off from the bottom so they know when you've all left the bottom and they can follow you drifting - very few use a trapeze unless in the lanes.

There's not so much choice in CO2 bags these days - I buy Kent ones when my trusty Aquatec ones finally give up. Don't bother trying to fit an inflator yourself - you'll either burst it the first time or end up with a limp bag - volume is critical.

Hanging on a bag for a long stop isn't a dirty secret - its just making it easy and means I'm not going to sink when I nod off for a bit.

[barnaby_s]

means I'm not going to sink when I nod off for a bit.

Love it, do you actually nod off, or just zone out?