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  1. #31
    Prior Member Tim Digger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo View Post

    The more low tech the machine, the more that they will use and everyone and their mother seems to be trying to make them lower and lower tech
    It all depends on what the aim of the ventilator is and who is specifying it. ITU ventilators are designed to ventilate patients with stiff lungs and keep then expanded increasingly to allow patients to breath spontaneously with the ventilator assisting, this requires a lot of sensors software feedback and control systems and can be best achieved with high fresh gas flows. Theatre ventilators are designed to allow the use of very low flows of gas to minimise the use of expensive polluting agents this requires closed circuit and soda lime absorbtion. Some theatre machines allow the use of some patterns of ITU ventilation but they never do it well, another problem is when suctioning secretions from the chest a "dumping of the loop" occurs which then has to be refilled ventilation is disrupted for a time.
    Evolution is great at solving problems. It's the methods that concern me.
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  2. #32
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    So is the consensus opinion that our hospitals need our sofnolime? Should we be donating our supplies to hospitals? Should the retailers be donating their supplies to their hospitals??

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo View Post
    The more low tech the machine, the more that they will use and everyone and their mother seems to be trying to make them lower and lower tech
    OH is highly sceptical of these low tech gas driven contraptions being lauded in the media as the answer. As Tamas has said anaesthetic machines are really not suitable for long term use that will be the requirement for treatment of C-19. There will indeed be tough choices to be made, they already are being made and have had to be made in the past. Sadly the magnitude of tough choices is going to rise.
    A fully paid up member of the CRAFT Club

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cazyoung View Post
    OH is highly sceptical of these low tech gas driven contraptions being lauded in the media as the answer. As Tamas has said anaesthetic machines are really not suitable for long term use that will be the requirement for treatment of C-19. There will indeed be tough choices to be made, they already are being made and have had to be made in the past. Sadly the magnitude of tough choices is going to rise.
    I thought that I'd read that the aim of the lower tech ventilators was for early intervention in serious but non-critcal cases to prevent any worsening of the condition to a point where they would need the ITU machines and thereby keeping the TU ventilators for the essential cases.

    I'm not medically trained so don't know if that would work but it seemed plausible.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by John63 View Post
    I thought that I'd read that the aim of the lower tech ventilators was for early intervention in serious but non-critcal cases to prevent any worsening of the condition to a point where they would need the ITU machines and thereby keeping the TU ventilators for the essential cases.

    I'm not medically trained so don't know if that would work but it seemed plausible.
    You do not ventilate people until they need it as they need to be heavily sedated and kept that way also have a tube placed into the trachea (windpipe). It is rather invasive and not a pleasant experience so not an early intervention. This process tends to happen in ITU where they already have their ventilators........
    A fully paid up member of the CRAFT Club

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  6. #36
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    Does the spec for medical grade sofnolime differ from diving grade?? Here is the medical grade stuff: https://www.molecularproducts.com/products/sodasorb

  7. #37
    Prior Member Tim Digger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John63 View Post
    I thought that I'd read that the aim of the lower tech ventilators was for early intervention in serious but non-critcal cases to prevent any worsening of the condition to a point where they would need the ITU machines and thereby keeping the TU ventilators for the essential cases.

    I'm not medically trained so don't know if that would work but it seemed plausible.
    No the low tech thing to try to keep people off ventilators is a CPAP Flow generator, to supply high flow air or oxygen by mask or head hood, there are simple mechanical ones which is what the Mercedes F1 team are hopefully manufacturing in quantity. My local hospital is desperate for some of these, the 4or5 we had 30 years ago have long been replaced by higher tech machines which there are not enough of. They also need a well designed variable flow constant pressure valve at the other, downstream end.
    Evolution is great at solving problems. It's the methods that concern me.
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  8. #38
    Prior Member Tim Digger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathal View Post
    Does the spec for medical grade sofnolime differ from diving grade?? Here is the medical grade stuff: https://www.molecularproducts.com/products/sodasorb
    Don't think so . If anything yours needs to be better!
    Evolution is great at solving problems. It's the methods that concern me.
    Tim Digger

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cazyoung View Post
    You do not ventilate people until they need it as they need to be heavily sedated and kept that way also have a tube placed into the trachea (windpipe). It is rather invasive and not a pleasant experience so not an early intervention. This process tends to happen in ITU where they already have their ventilators........
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Digger View Post
    No the low tech thing to try to keep people off ventilators is a CPAP Flow generator, to supply high flow air or oxygen by mask or head hood, there are simple mechanical ones which is what the Mercedes F1 team are hopefully manufacturing in quantity. My local hospital is desperate for some of these, the 4or5 we had 30 years ago have long been replaced by higher tech machines which there are not enough of. They also need a well designed variable flow constant pressure valve at the other, downstream end.


    Thanks for info and clarifying

  10. #40
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathal View Post
    Does the spec for medical grade sofnolime differ from diving grade?? Here is the medical grade stuff: https://www.molecularproducts.com/products/sodasorb
    medical stuff isn't as good as ours as it only operates at 1 bar.

    How do I know this? because a club member got hold of some from a nearby hospital and had a CO2 hit at 40m in NDAC...…
    he's still getting the bollocking two years later

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.


 
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