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Thread: Hand sanitiser

  1. #391
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    One size doesn't fit all.

    If sticking to the roads, going round the block here is 5 miles in any direction. Loads of county to walk in and unlikely to meet anyone. Nearest supermarket's a 15 mile round-trip. The butcher, baker and pharmacy are four miles away.

    Moved out of the London cesspit years ago.

  2. #392
    Established TDF Member Firefly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay_Benson View Post
    But I can predict a lovely summer in terms of weather.
    With crystal clear warm water around the UK.


  3. #393
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    I have lot of friends working in fashion retail warehousing they are still working. How can Adidas be essential? If its fashion its not needed.

    Graham.
    I am sure the bosses would say that clothing is essential (it is cold at the minute so they are half right) As this continues the definition of essential might get well tested. If your trainers are worn out then yes, Adidas is something you might well want to buy on line right now. If you are going for run every day as opposed to every weekend then you might wear out your footwear faster than usual.

    As the money runs out my suspicion is that 'essential' will broaden it's scope and reach accordingly.

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    I have lot of friends working in fashion retail warehousing they are still working. How can Adidas be essential? If its fashion its not needed.

    Graham.
    If they were making truly workable facemasks for the NHS I'd see the sense (like the Italian and French fashion houses). But for the courier guys still to be transporting someones new top and trousers to flaunt on some bloggy/voggy site seems madness. The courier guys have been fabulous but are putting their own health at risk. If they were only transporting medical equipment or components that would seem far more sensible. No-one needs new clothes at present.

  5. #395
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    Now for some more reading. Same pathologist, this time questioning the basic numbers: those with the disease, those dying of the disease and when. It's particularly important to count those that died of it as opposed to those dying with it.

    How to understand – and report – figures for ‘Covid deaths’ - Dr John Lee
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...vid-19-deaths-

    His point is that the numbers are both uncertain and vastly overstated.

  6. #396
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    ...
    His point is that the numbers are both uncertain and vastly overstated.
    His unfounded opinion is that it is overstated.

    I reckon this pillock is one of the "it's all bollocks" people. No one can argue that the data is all over the place, but why is it that this idiotic right wing publication is the only one to find some retired old fart that wants to play it down? The data from Vo' is as near as possible to empiric data and that should be the start point. This chap is entitled to his opinion but I think it is his opinion that is all a load of old bollocks not the disease.

  7. #397
    TDF Member huwporter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    His unfounded opinion is that it is overstated.

    I reckon this pillock is one of the "it's all bollocks" people. No one can argue that the data is all over the place, but why is it that this idiotic right wing publication is the only one to find some retired old fart that wants to play it down? The data from Vo' is as near as possible to empiric data and that should be the start point. This chap is entitled to his opinion but I think it is his opinion that is all a load of old bollocks not the disease.
    It's like someone has been shot and is lying bleeding in the street begging for help, and this guy is standing over them saying "Well I think the violent crime statistics in this area are unreliable so lets not be too hasty about calling you one of those ambulances my taxes pay for, hmmm"

    Edit: And I say this as a statistician who thinks there are all sorts of issues with the numbers as presented. That really isn't the point...
    Last edited by huwporter; 30-03-2020 at 09:04 AM.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    His unfounded opinion is that it is overstated.

    I reckon this pillock is one of the "it's all bollocks" people. No one can argue that the data is all over the place, but why is it that this idiotic right wing publication is the only one to find some retired old fart that wants to play it down? The data from Vo' is as near as possible to empiric data and that should be the start point. This chap is entitled to his opinion but I think it is his opinion that is all a load of old bollocks not the disease.
    So we're now not allowed to analyse some of the core data for which our economy's been locked down on?

    For whatever reason you've ignored his quite valid points about the doubts in how the current numbers stack up. It's an attempt at explaining the wide disparity between neighbouring countries Italy, France and Germany. Nowhere is it saying that it's not happening, nor that it's not stressing the NHS. But it is questioning the basis for some of the hysteria we face.

    As I understand it the NHS has very little spare capacity and this is being overrun by an increase in demand for "rare" high dependency care beds.

    You could make valid political points about there being too few of these resources, etc. But you haven't; you've attacked the messenger, not even the messenger's arguments.

  9. #399
    TDF Member huwporter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    So we're now not allowed to analyse some of the core data for which our economy's been locked down on?

    For whatever reason you've ignored his quite valid points about the doubts in how the current numbers stack up. It's an attempt at explaining the wide disparity between neighbouring countries Italy, France and Germany. Nowhere is it saying that it's not happening, nor that it's not stressing the NHS. But it is questioning the basis for some of the hysteria we face.

    As I understand it the NHS has very little spare capacity and this is being overrun by an increase in demand for "rare" high dependency care beds.

    You could make valid political points about there being too few of these resources, etc. But you haven't; you've attacked the messenger, not even the messenger's arguments.
    There is a concerted effort among the right to sow doubt about the risks of COVID-19 by nit-picking details here and there, and by which completely 'missing' (read: misleading away from) the point. Without playing a tedious and repetitive game of whack-a-mole (all of which has been done multiple times already) with these misdirections that aren't even being made in good faith, the basic message is: "Now look here, peons, stop worrying about all that inconvenient death of 15% of your older generations, 10% of all your health workers etc, look at the fact that over 90 percent of you won't die and get back to work for the sake of my investment portfolio!"
    Last edited by huwporter; 30-03-2020 at 09:21 AM.

  10. #400
    Kit Junkie Kermit's Avatar
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    Personally I've given up trying to get any reasonable analysis from news sources or fora. Statistics is a tricky game and very amateur epidemiologist and journalist seems to be after clicks to make their own personal point or opinion, often political. Masses of internet warriors have been dusting off their spreadsheet and charting skills and coming up with something they think is informative. Even the "experts" are in disagreement and, guess what, that's how science works.

    Most of the raw data being bandied about has limited use as there are so many aspects of it that are not fully qualified. E.g, number of cases: Who has been tested? Under what protocol? Who decides to test whom for what reason? Which test? What's the reliability of the test?

    Deaths: Cause of death? Someone dies and they show a virus infection, was that the cause of death? Etc... My mother had a stroke but lived (in a limited way) through it. Cause of death Pneumonia.

    Of course the polititians get it in the neck. So many people have an axe to grind and this is a convenient stick to bash them with (please excuse the mixed metaphor). Whatever they do is bound to be wrong in some ways when we have the benefit of hindsight. It's a thankless task.

    One thing I believe is a given is that, this is unprecedented in the last 100 years. Beyond the memory of most of us. Please, just be safe and, more importantly, be kind.
    I'll think of something witty some time soon.


 
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