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  1. #91
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobfish1 View Post
    Much like the rest of us
    Ie Not using OSEL pdf s for are day to day diving .
    Steve, stop knocking the pdfs. There is a bog roll shortage.

    Nope, not even useful for that unless you supply your own hardware.

  2. #92
    Established TDF Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post

    BTW it appears that UMG didnít brief you very well for your work with them as OSELs commercial rebreather is a primary life support system fully CE certified for commercial use and happily dived by the customer with orders placed for a full production run.

    While Simon is a lot more aware from a very very interesting perspective, of this project than he is letting on, others might be interested in educating themselves a little more per page 125 http://www.edtc.org/MINUTES/Minutes%...%20Meeting.pdf
    Any chance you can post a link to the results of those 2013 trials that are mentioned in the Technip slide?

  3. #93
    Last of the Mohicans gobfish1's Avatar
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    Don't hold you breath Mike.

    Can't see Brad coming back and saying
    We got told to feek off.


    Probably end up with a five thousand word reply
    That will miss out the above six . Lol
    Last edited by gobfish1; 27-03-2020 at 07:33 PM.
    None diver as of 2018.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Yes there were some interesting choices made there weren’t there… I guess you could call a ship over-complicated when it carries the bailout gas http://www.energy-oil-gas.com/2012/02/29/unique-system/
    Even more expensive when they built a ship around utilising said fully certified at that time primary rebreather life support system https://www.evolen.org/_upload/resso...arctic_jah.pdf

    Especially considering OSEL owned and continue to own all the IP and tooling for the complete rebreather system inclusive of the SparkADA code! Supplied COTS with valid PO: albeit with solid-state O2 sensors now, OSELs progressive Oxygen valve and 350m CE/NORSOK certification if required.


    Indeed https://www.facebook.com/OpenSafetyE...3144424405002/ would be great to see other rebreather manufacturers developing their own.
    Especially with how inaccurate tempstiks and inhale CO2 monitoring are; as evidenced by the dearth of their testing.


    No worries. You will. So nice diving such a light unit with its market lowest WOB. Proven to be safe enough to be shipped direct to customers doors fully diveable out of the box, just add gas and get trained.


    Kinda correct. That was likely one of this batch of units https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=129100310476080

    Per that demo Alex makes it quite clear that the fully controlled unit was for military use only. That specific military eCCR he refers to is this one https://www.facebook.com/OpenSafetyE...type=3&theater which is very nice to dive.
    The sports units for recreational use OSEL offer have always been mCCR units at heart, even if O2 only. The iCCR is at its core an mCCR with intervention electronics overlaid.


    Amusing. Plenty of credibility amongst the right players with OSELs Commercial and Military lines that are designed to be safely dived to 350m.
    On the Recreational side no one is forcing anyone to dive an OSEL unit. But for those that do their research and compare the testing and systems engineering behind OSELs units compared to any competition the contrast is vast http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_fmeca.php and http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_dv.php

    OSEL even sell their blank military eCCR head to anyone whom wants one to add to an Apoc. With at least a couple in active use as DIY eCCRs using off the self controllers. Will full ongoing support for the CCR provided by OSEL up to the 'e' bit, at that point you're on your own.


    An interesting one to bring up Simon. Especially noting your supposed - in all bar the Wes Skiles instance at least - support of the use of checklists pre-dive.
    You’d think that when a rebreather no matter the make, did something unexpected on a dive, one would fully investigate why before diving it again. There is certainly no way that this unit passed its pre-diving oxygen flow checks after that first dive…. The o-ring was shredded because it had been blown out! Which requires well in-excess of 300bar! Yes, like the Mk15 series and original KISS, the Apoc's oxygen injector can take the full HP oxygen if the seat fails. See my above point about customers force diving units when they shouldn’t!

    But in this case this same customer sent their burnt out 1st stage/injector back not once but twice from two separate overseas dive trips for free warranty repair by OSEL! Pics and report were published in OSELs Newsletter to all customers. Good thing OSEL put the Apollo A320 1st stage through such rigorous testing at BAM.de, use very high quality inflammable materials in the oxygen system and use only Gleitmo 599 https://www.opensafety.eu/datasheets...(overseas).pdf as not even OSELs new progressive oxygen valve would have saved that divers unit from the outcome of a hydrocarbon contaminated oxygen fill. Which was the only way DL at OSELs request could recreate this specific and individual issue as reported.
    No other customer has recreated this issue since, thankfully.


    Feel free to re-read the various newsletters OSEL have published Simon and consider how much is disclosed… Then compare that with your preferred rebreather!
    Pretty sure I covered most of the more interesting post production issues here https://www.thediveforum.com/showthr...l=1#post447655 so you might need to reread your RBW collection as you missed a few.

    Of note EVERY single issue reported to OSEL is logged and disclosed to the auditors as a matter of course during every relevant certification audit. There is at least one a year for something. I’d think this is unique in the diving industry but them OSELs family of rebreathers are also the only rebreathers on the market with Functional Safety certification to 61508 with high SIL so the fact that no-one else bothers to report/track/fix issues is kind of irrelevant. After all, while I know you don't have to, potential customers diving other makes of rebreather seem quite happy to continue to pay other rebreather manufacturers through the nose multiple times to fix their design and QA issues

    What you appear struggling to fathom Simone may be OSEL sticking their hand up and somewhat uniquely saying, yes it happened, yes OSEL fixed it at OSELs cost….
    Contrast that to continuing claims made by others about their cracked cases, cracked handsets, corroded wiring, MAVs that fall off or stick, units that turn off when you roll backwards off a RHIB and BOVs that stick etc etc On return to their respective manufacturer insult is added to injury by having to pay for these supposed repairs…

    Heck Simon you have me thinking of issues now and that makes me remember that you're still ignorant of the WOB of your own rebreathers BOV in OC and CC modes. And don't know why the unit you dive still does not come with a $20 gag strap as standard?


    Come again Simon. What problems? Oh yes, sorry, a number of divers force dived another brand of sports rebreather and shifted the functional safety requirement for the auto-bailout function of the iCCR to ‘always require’ from ‘attempt to’. Cost OSEL a lot of business that, as it continues to do you but I would hardly call it a problem with the rebreather itself. Delays since then are certainly a problem but it is not as if you can buy a rebreather with either the same functionality as the iCCR or the same breathing performance as any OSEL unit from any other manufacturer.

    BTW it appears that UMG didn’t brief you very well for your work with them as OSELs commercial rebreather is a primary life support system fully CE certified for commercial use and happily dived by the customer with orders placed for a full production run.

    While Simon is a lot more aware from a very very interesting perspective, of this project than he is letting on, others might be interested in educating themselves a little more per page 125 http://www.edtc.org/MINUTES/Minutes%...%20Meeting.pdf
    For all your obscure website links and self written PDFs - you can't give a single picture of anybody diving. Not a single one of your divers has come out in support of you on any thread I have seen (or at least remember).

    You, like Iain, hide behind commercial diving ... and yet this is a recreational diving forum. If you are so successful in the commercial world why are you here? I suspect its because you're a failure there too.
    Last edited by graham_hk; 27-03-2020 at 09:51 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Of note EVERY single issue reported to OSEL is logged and disclosed to the auditors as a matter of course during every relevant certification audit. There is at least one a year for something.
    OK Brad, so why did you claim this.....

    ...results in a very low and by that I believe it to be zero, instance of faulty rebreather builds or components received by OSELs customers to date.

    …...just a few posts earlier????? You know there have been problems. Why lie about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    You’d think that when a rebreather no matter the make, did something unexpected on a dive, one would fully investigate why before diving it again.
    Ah, the classic 'blame the customer for manufacturing faults' strategy alluded to by every one of the people whose complaints I cited in my earlier post - and irrelevant to the point. You were claiming there had never been any faults in a rebreather sent to a customer. I simply provided evidence that this was completely false. Whether the users responded perfectly to the presence of those faults is completely irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Yes there were some interesting choices made there weren’t there… I guess you could call a ship over-complicated when it carries the bailout gas http://www.energy-oil-gas.com/2012/02/29/unique-system/
    Even more expensive when they built a ship around utilising said fully certified at that time primary rebreather life support system https://www.evolen.org/_upload/resso...arctic_jah.pdf
    Brad, this is like posting old web references to Concorde as evidence that it is still flying. You are trying to use evidence of your failures as evidence of success. No one is fooled any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Especially with how inaccurate tempstiks and inhale CO2 monitoring are; as evidenced by the dearth of their testing.
    Actually, they perform better than I expected. See here:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Silvanius+M

    ...and in 3 days you will be able to access the full paper at the Pubmed Central link

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    The sports units for recreational use OSEL offer have always been mCCR units at heart, even if O2 only. The iCCR is at its core an mCCR with intervention electronics overlaid.
    The intended implication of this is unmitigated revisionist nonsense as anyone around the forums 10 years ago will verify. For years, the focus of the "open revolution" rebreather was a rebreather with the capability of preventing death through engineering - it would prevent you breathing on an unsafe loop. No one EVER talked about releasing an mCCR oxygen rebreather first. The provision of an mCCR oxygen rebreather was NEVER on the radar until it was clear that you could not make the iCCR work adequately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Amusing. Plenty of credibility amongst the right players with OSELs Commercial and Military lines
    Name one military or commercial organisation that has purchased your rebreathers for routine incorporation into their operations.

    Simon M
    Last edited by simon mitchell; 27-03-2020 at 08:43 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    You, like Iain, hide behind commercial diving ... and yet this is a recreational diving forum. If you are so successful in the commercial world why are you here? I suspect its because you're a failure there too.

    Hi Graham.

    Look I said I was sorry, I didn't know she was your girlfriend.

    I was only doing what commercial divers do best.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Hi Graham.

    Look I said I was sorry, I didn't know she was your girlfriend.

    I was only doing what commercial divers do best.
    We all know what commercial divers do best Iain ...talk shite and get made unemployed by ROVs ...

  8. #98
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    Why are we putting up with this drivel again when we all know there is definitely a shady motive for ginger to come out of his pit (must be another court case coming up.). Also why are you posting to Brad when everyone knows it's ginge posting.

    Regarding the apoc it promised much and delivered very little, clever marketing resulted in a few people being conned into getting one, Nigerian prince comes to mind.

    A pal of mine opted for one used it a couple of times then shelved it while waiting for the electronics (still on the shelf now), he even tried to sell it at cost without success.

    The way to shut ginge up is to ask him for the electronics he promised (not a N@90 pod)

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alby R View Post
    The way to shut ginge up is to ask him for the electronics he promised (not a N@90 pod)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad_Horn View Post
    Per that demo Alex makes it quite clear that the fully controlled unit was for military use only. That specific military eCCR he refers to is this one https://www.facebook.com/OpenSafetyE...type=3&theater which is very nice to dive.
    The sports units for recreational use OSEL offer have always been mCCR units at heart, even if O2 only. The iCCR is at its core an mCCR with intervention electronics overlaid.
    Ah but not any more because history has changed. He never promised the iCCR, as Brad says above. The iCCR version of history has gone down the memory hole and never existed. You might think you remember it but that's because you are confused and in error!!!
    The views expressed are my own, worth what you've paid for them, are not on behalf of anyone else and not those of any company I work for etc.

  10. #100
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    Hi jturner,

    Before Brad has the satisfaction of coming on here and correcting everyone whilst sounding pious and playing on technicalities, there never was a "fully controlled" unit (as in constant PO2 controlled eCCR) proposed by OSEL for recreational use. They made at least one prototype of a military eCCR which I am certain has not been sold to anyone (notwithstanding Brad's claim that "its nice to dive"). The promised recreational rebreather that an earlier poster ambiguously referred to as "fully controlled" was the iCCR. The oxygen control in that unit was fundamentally mCCR, but what set it apart was the alleged capability for preventing you breathing on a hypoxic, hyperoxic, or hypercapnic loop, measuring end tidal CO2, and automatically bailing you out if the loop became dangerous, talking to you, among other things. None of the latter features were ever delivered leaving just an oxygen mCCR that they later started delivering.

    The gross misrepresentation of fact that Brad is attempting now is to imply that releasing the oxygen mCCR on its own was always part of the plan (thereby mitigating the embarrassment of failing to deliver the iCCR). Those of us who were around the forums from the mid 2000s on know this (like so many other things he says) to be completely untrue. The early discussions of the "open revolution" rebreather never included the possibility that an oxygen mCCR might be released. It was always the iCCR, right up until the time when it became obvious to anyone watching that they couldn't make it work. That's when they said they would release an mCCR to those who wanted it, and provide the iCCR electronics later.

    Simon M


 
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