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  1. #41
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
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    Possible Chinese involvement in HS2

    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    Think you should chose your data carefully as the reported cases show that the work for in Europe is 15% of Asia yet the reported death rates are 50% higher than in Asia. Looking at that table as a PhD in science I'd say its being written with confirmation biased or worse, i.e., simply put, treat the data as barely worth the paper its written on.

    Still I suppose the HSE warriors love it and use to make the UK construction industry the glorious shinning light that we all think it is ...
    Oh and lol
    I was looking at the fatals per 100k, and not including the lack of reporting (is there a Chinese HSE? Do they have a riddor reporting system, when does a project require a “F10” equivalence.
    No confirmation bias. I get the videos too often

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Lol.
    Blame the HE. We’d love to crash a project out.
    I had a chance to close J8 on the M25 for 3 months and get all works done for £3m or close out of hours over 15months and cost £7m
    Even explained how we could do the comm’s and the public would take the pain. No go
    I actually got the HE to close a junction on the A14 last year, we could have had the works done over three weekends with full closures, after 20 hours we had to cancel and open the works, the HE had 3 complaints

    B
    Then HE needs to grow some balls and tell the idiots complaining its for everybodies benefit - on so many levels: the improvement, the £ saved and the over all length of the project etc etc

    I had a crash on the M3 2 or 3 years ago (3 vehicles at low speed (no one hurt on site - except for lawyers causing a rash of whiplash afterwards... but that another story). The bell ends driving past shouting abuse is something to behold. The copper said it was tame (was a few miles tail back - not a big one apparently) and when its a bigger accident with people hurt drivers will rubber neck and even try to film, another group of morons will throw abuse and anything that comes to hand out of the window.

    The lack of quality of driving and the tolerance of other drivers astounds me - it is shocking arriving back in UK after a European road trip.

    BTW nicely sidestepped - using shite data does nothing to support any argument!

  3. #43
    Established TDF Member Steve Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    I hear all that (and Adrian's comments) - but I think you are looking at this from the wrong way around. The projects should be co-ordinated to take place as quickly as possible - and rather than years of delays a better solution found. Just like paying 20p to get rid of the cones for a week most motorists would take a short hit to solve the solution quickly. Its like the local roads that are dug up for gas and two weeks later dug up again for water
    Yes, you are right.

    There are some excellent projects in the UK that have been coordinated well and built fast and to budget. They are normally the ones that are in a field by themselves and the build team can really come up with some smart solutions. (M6 toll, Olympics, Queensferry crossing, Manchester Runway 2).

    The ones that have massive interfaces with real world stuff (M6, M1, M25, Crossrail, HS2 Euston, Heathrow R3+M25) are out of the build team's control to come up with smart solutions. They are creaking at capacity before we dig em up. On the M1, it would be cheaper to build a brand new M1B next to it and use that, rather than work on the existing live. Heathrow Runway 3 is estimated to cost over 50 times(!) as much as Manchester Runway 2. Same length, same planes. It includes the demolition of the flagship £200M BA Headquarters FFS! (https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...ll-raze-his-hq)

    For these projects the smart solutions can only come from the government. They need to be bold and commit to upsetting a few people to get something big built.

  4. #44
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    Then HE (whatever that is) needs to grow some balls and tell the idiots complaining its for everybodies benefit - on so many levels: the improvement, the £ saved and the over all length of the project etc etc

    I had a crash on the M3 2 or 3 years ago (3 vehicles at low speed (no one hurt on site - there was the post event curiously suddenly effected by whiplash ... but that another story). The bell ends driving past shouting abuse is something to behold. The copper said it was tame (was a few miles tail back - not a big one apparently) and when its a bigger accident with people hurt drivers will rubber neck and even try to film, another group of morons will throw abuse and anything that comes to hand out of the window.

    The lack of quality of driving and the tolerance of other drivers astounds me - it is shocking arriving back in UK after a European road trip.

    BTW nicely sidestepped btw -using shite data does nothing to support any argument!
    Highways England. Used to be called the HA (Highways Agency) got “privatised” and KPI’ed and is now run by complaints

    In their defence. Their budget for 2020/2021 should have been set by an act of parliament in July last year, but guess what brexit got in the way. That J8 scheme is currently in limbo because they don’t know their budget for the next financial year. Yep.

    But yes, we should adopt the French, double lining near junctions = get out of this lane
    And undertaking should be legal (or middle lane hogging should lead to instant immolation)

    If you want a real giggle, HE staff are not allowed to take a car journey over 30miles (either via own or pool cars) they have to use the train as “policy”

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Clark View Post
    For these projects the smart solutions can only come from the government. They need to be bold and commit to upsetting a few people to get something big built.
    Now we get to the real issue - politicians . Rather than doing what they should they do what will create the least bad press and try to buy as many votes as possible. I look at what they Chinese and other Asian nations can achieve and really despise what democracy has become (look at the Brexit debacle)

  6. #46
    Established TDF Member Steve Clark's Avatar
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    The Highways Agency had a superb logo, I always liked that :



    Highways England new logo seems to sum up their sense of direction :


  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Oh and lol
    I was looking at the fatals per 100k, and not including the lack of reporting (is there a Chinese HSE? Do they have a riddor reporting system, when does a project require a “F10” equivalence.
    No confirmation bias. I get the videos too often

    B
    You are using confirmation bias ...the videos have no importance to the data.

    You are conveniently choosing the estimated column not the data column (which gives a figure completely against your bias).

  8. #48
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    You are using confirmation bias ...the videos have no importance to the data.

    You are conveniently choosing the estimated column not the data column (which gives a figure completely against your bias).
    Confirmation bias?
    Estimated because it’s not reported. So is it worse?

    Ok this is amazing Chinese engineering. Absolutely awe inspiring (and you’ll remember your comments on my fb when I was learning Chinese) my brother was born in Singapore. There is no confirmation bias (and your confirmation bias is now open, just because I’m English I don’t have an anti Asian confirmation bias )

    https://youtu.be/cKi8VWRDA_c

    That shows flagrant H&S “in this country” breaches

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Confirmation bias?
    Estimated because it’s not reported. So is it worse?

    Ok this is amazing Chinese engineering. Absolutely awe inspiring (and you’ll remember your comments on my fb when I was learning Chinese) my brother was born in Singapore. There is no confirmation bias (and your confirmation bias is now open, just because I’m English I don’t have an anti Asian confirmation bias )

    https://youtu.be/cKi8VWRDA_c

    That shows flagrant H&S “in this country” breaches

    B
    Why choose the estimated column then? Its not about racism, you have chosen a position and are looking for data to support it.

    Go back to your first post "36 deaths in the UK" ...Why not dig out some real data to support your arguments or state them as opinion (that I would likely respect) instead of try to push an opinion supported by rubbish.


    I don't doubt there is less enforcement in China - I spent a lot of time there every year. I like the fact that you have to take more personal responsibility there - I accept that risk and chose to spend time there.

  10. #50
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    Why choose the estimated column then? Its not about racism, you have chosen a position and are looking for data to support it.

    Go back to your first post "36 deaths in the UK" ...Why not dig out some real data to support your arguments or state them as opinion (that I would likely respect) instead of try to push an opinion supported by rubbish.


    I don't doubt there is less enforcement in China - I spent a lot of time there every year. I like the fact that you have to take more personal responsibility there - I accept that risk and chose to spend time there.
    Yep. I chose all those.
    I can’t respond on the construction deaths in China.
    Ok - you have the language skills publish the AFR for China - accident frequency rate - start with the 3 day off work injuries per 100,000 workers.
    Then the deaths per 100,000
    Assist rather than diss

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.


 
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