Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 103
  1. #21
    Established TDF Member Steve Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Lancaster, UK
    Posts
    2,665
    Likes (Given)
    256
    Likes (Received)
    1724
    The ‘smart’ bit is only a small element of what is basically essential maintenance and upgrades to existing motorways, carried-out at huge cost because the road need to be kept live.

    The schemes take so long because there is a lot to do. The usual thing where there is land available is to build a new hard shoulder. This involves new embankments, cuttings, soil reinforcement and extending the width of all the under bridges. The new hard shoulder is built to full-running lane standard. Then they need to dig out the old hard shoulder to full depth and rebuild this to become lane 1. Dependant on ground conditions, this can be two metres deep. Once that’s done they can resurface old lane 1 / new lane 2. Then job is half done, move the traffic on to HS, L1, L2 and start building in the centre. Rip-out the existing central reservation, replace the drainage, foundations for the concrete safety barrier, foundations for gantries, extruded concrete surface water channels to come or both sides, then extrude concrete safety barrier itself. Re-tarmac lanes 3, 4 and edge. White line everything, install cats eyes, cut traffic detection loops, install signs, electronic message boards, test and commission the road with safety inspections etc. Whilst that’s going on, there’s all the other associated stuff that gets slotted in - NRTS fibre network, street lighting, emergency phones, road restraint barriers, fences, landscaping, bridge column strengthening, access footpaths & steps, bridge bearing replacements, cctv cameras, petrol interceptors, attenuation ponds, building and removing all temporary sites, compounds and access roads. Everything done whilst not killing any birds. Every one of these activities has huge quantities. On the scheme I worked on J25-28 M1, there was over 100,000m of rib line (rumble strip) and 700,000 trees.

    Smart or not, these critical roads needed the upgrade of the basic civils. Once complete, they are fixed for a good few years.

    Wait until they seriously start on replacing rather than repairing the elevated sections of M6 & M5 in Birmingham. That could take a decade or more working in the same manner.
    Last edited by Steve Clark; 18-02-2020 at 04:45 PM.

  2. #22
    Remember, remember Adrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Exeter
    Posts
    2,076
    Likes (Given)
    1123
    Likes (Received)
    814
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Clark View Post
    The ‘smart’ bit is only a small element of what is basically essential maintenance and upgrades to existing motorways, carried-out at huge cost because the road need to be kept live.

    The schemes take so long because there is a lot to do. The usual thing where there is land available is to build a new hard shoulder. This involves new embankments, cuttings, soil reinforcement and extending the width of all the under bridges. The new hard shoulder is built to full-running lane standard. Then they need to dig out the old hard shoulder to full depth and rebuild this to become lane 1. Dependant on ground conditions, this can be two metres deep. Once that’s done they can resurface old lane 1 / new lane 2. Then job is half done, move the traffic on to HS, L1, L2 and start building in the centre. Rip-out the existing central reservation, replace the drainage, foundations for the concrete safety barrier, foundations for gantries, extruded concrete surface water channels to come or both sides, then extrude concrete safety barrier itself. Re-tarmac lanes 3, 4 and edge. White line everything, install cats eyes, cut traffic detection loops, install signs, electronic message boards, test and commission the road with safety inspections etc. Whilst that’s going on, there’s all the other associated stuff that gets slotted in - NRTS fibre network, street lighting, emergency phones, road restraint barriers, fences, landscaping, bridge column strengthening, access footpaths & steps, bridge bearing replacements, cctv cameras, petrol interceptors, attenuation ponds, building and removing all temporary sites, compounds and access roads. Everything done whilst not killing any birds. Every one of these activities has huge quantities. On the scheme I worked on J25-28 M1, there was over 100,000m of rib line (rumble strip) and 700,000 trees.

    Smart or not, these critical roads needed the upgrade of the basic civils. Once complete, they are fixed for a good few years.

    Wait until they seriously start on replacing rather than repairing the elevated sections of M6 & M5 in Birmingham. That could take a decade or more working in the same manner.
    You touched on land availability. This is probably the biggest influencer on the type of smart motorway implemented, apart from cost. Additional land take involves public enquiry, likely delayed with protests etc. Just about everything done recently has fitted in the same space.

    About 10 years ago (Mouchel at the time, colleagues were some of the original developers of smart motorways) we were all asked to test/interpret various new symbols being developed to control lanes. I guess some of that fed into the ones we now see.
    Mah Nà Mah Nà

  3. #23
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Diving
    Posts
    3,009
    Likes (Given)
    942
    Likes (Received)
    1832
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Clark View Post
    The ‘smart’ bit is only a small element of what is basically essential maintenance and upgrades to existing motorways, carried-out at huge cost because the road need to be kept live.

    The schemes take so long because there is a lot to do. The usual thing where there is land available is to build a new hard shoulder. This involves new embankments, cuttings, soil reinforcement and extending the width of all the under bridges. The new hard shoulder is built to full-running lane standard. Then they need to dig out the old hard shoulder to full depth and rebuild this to become lane 1. Dependant on ground conditions, this can be two metres deep. Once that’s done they can resurface old lane 1 / new lane 2. Then job is half done, move the traffic on to HS, L1, L2 and start building in the centre. Rip-out the existing central reservation, replace the drainage, foundations for the concrete safety barrier, foundations for gantries, extruded concrete surface water channels to come or both sides, then extrude concrete safety barrier itself. Re-tarmac lanes 3, 4 and edge. White line everything, install cats eyes, cut traffic detection loops, install signs, electronic message boards, test and commission the road with safety inspections etc. Whilst that’s going on, there’s all the other associated stuff that gets slotted in - NRTS fibre network, street lighting, emergency phones, road restraint barriers, fences, landscaping, bridge column strengthening, access footpaths & steps, bridge bearing replacements, cctv cameras, petrol interceptors, attenuation ponds, building and removing all temporary sites, compounds and access roads. Everything done whilst not killing any birds. Every one of these activities has huge quantities. On the scheme I worked on J25-28 M1, there was over 100,000m of rib line (rumble strip) and 700,000 trees.

    Smart or not, these critical roads needed the upgrade of the basic civils. Once complete, they are fixed for a good few years.

    Wait until they seriously start on replacing rather than repairing the elevated sections of M6 & M5 in Birmingham. That could take a decade or more working in the same manner.
    Add into that the HE's insistence on not disrupting the travelling public (they like the death by a thousand cuts, rather than ripping the sticking plaster off approach the Chinese etc use) while you're travelling down the road works on the motorway, also consider the varioguard barrier. Anything within 1.2m of the back of that barrier is dead if the barrier is struck from the traffic side. hence long stretches where they can only work at night after having moved the barrier out at the start of the shift and back in again at the end. Having just replaced all the lights at the M1/M25 junction I can testify that the working window (i.e. the time between TM finishing going out and being pulled back in) is as little as four hours.

    And having done the pier and crosshead replacement at Gravelly Hill, under spaghetti a few years ago, the single crosshead and two pier took 16months

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.

  4. #24
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,528
    Likes (Given)
    154
    Likes (Received)
    588
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Add into that the HE's insistence on not disrupting the travelling public (they like the death by a thousand cuts, rather than ripping the sticking plaster off approach the Chinese etc use) while you're travelling down the road works on the motorway, also consider the varioguard barrier. Anything within 1.2m of the back of that barrier is dead if the barrier is struck from the traffic side. hence long stretches where they can only work at night after having moved the barrier out at the start of the shift and back in again at the end. Having just replaced all the lights at the M1/M25 junction I can testify that the working window (i.e. the time between TM finishing going out and being pulled back in) is as little as four hours.

    And having done the pier and crosshead replacement at Gravelly Hill, under spaghetti a few years ago, the single crosshead and two pier took 16months

    B

    And yet all over the world they manage to work safely without all of that - who knows maybe UK drivers really are as bad as I think everybody else on the road is ...

  5. #25
    Established TDF Member Barrygoss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Diving
    Posts
    3,009
    Likes (Given)
    942
    Likes (Received)
    1832
    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    And yet all over the world they manage to work safely without all of that - who knows maybe UK drivers really are as bad as I think everybody else on the road is ...
    Chinese construction deaths - 1732 in the first half of July 2018
    http://https://clb.org.hk/content/ch...more-dangerous

    Uk construction deaths - 36 for 2019 (pretty much the average)

    B
    Rebreathers are like women; they pretend to love you, whilst taking all your money and trying to kill you.

  6. #26
    Remember, remember Adrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Exeter
    Posts
    2,076
    Likes (Given)
    1123
    Likes (Received)
    814
    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    And yet all over the world they manage to work safely without all of that - who knows maybe UK drivers really are as bad as I think everybody else on the road is ...
    No, they don't.
    Mah Nà Mah Nà

  7. #27
    Established TDF Member Steve Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Lancaster, UK
    Posts
    2,665
    Likes (Given)
    256
    Likes (Received)
    1724
    I once had a traffic management scheme under M1 J25. 2+1 running lanes through cones for a km or so. We were hoping to have it finished before August bank holiday but lost a shift when our crew was diverted to resurface a diesel spill.

    I asked the Highway Agency for permission to leave the cones out over the bank holiday weekend. It would save them £25,000 and 3 days extra work if we could work through. Simple response - 120,000 cars with holiday drivers will use that junction over weekend. As a member of the public would you spend 20p to teleport out of a traffic jam? Yes, of course you would. Pull the cones off, put them back on next week.

    It was our scheme that Clarkson took the piss out of for being 15miles long and hardly anyone working at night. He drove straight through at 50mph in a single lane, non-stop. Reduced his journey time by about 4 minutes. 600 lads working on that site for 4 years. 100,000 vehicles each way everyday. No fatal accidents to construction workers. (1 serious accident, unrelated to traffic).

  8. #28
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Hiding from Divemouse
    Posts
    1,097
    Likes (Given)
    55
    Likes (Received)
    455
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Chinese construction deaths - 1732 in the first half of July 2018
    http://https://clb.org.hk/content/ch...more-dangerous

    Uk construction deaths - 36 for 2019 (pretty much the average)

    B
    Not disputing that Chinese safety regs may be suspect, and yes I have worked in China where there were deaths and serious HSE incidents on the projects but the figures of 1732 deaths v 36 are pretty meaningless in isolation as I suspect that there were orders of magnitude more construction work in China in the time periods.

    They can only be compared if related to a common denominator. Eg deaths per million man hours.

    Would actually be interested to see that info.

    p.s. the link didn’t work for me
    Last edited by John63; 18-02-2020 at 05:59 PM.

  9. #29
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    2,245
    Likes (Given)
    1375
    Likes (Received)
    855
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Clark View Post
    I asked the Highway Agency for permission to leave the cones out over the bank holiday weekend.
    Why, did someone leave out a single wheelbarrow that needed protecting by 10 miles of cones 😬

  10. #30
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,528
    Likes (Given)
    154
    Likes (Received)
    588
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrygoss View Post
    Chinese construction deaths - 1732 in the first half of July 2018
    http://https://clb.org.hk/content/ch...more-dangerous

    Uk construction deaths - 36 for 2019 (pretty much the average)

    B
    Thats a silly and over simplistic comparison (which I suspect you know already). If you correct for population is not a clear as you might think and I would hazard a guess that there are more people working in construction per capita so the numbers are likely not (statistically) significantly different.
    Last edited by graham_hk; 18-02-2020 at 06:12 PM.


 
Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •