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  1. #71
    Last of the Mohicans gobfish1's Avatar
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    If your in a club situation the must is normally easy to sort out .
    None diver as of 2018.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by profpointy View Post
    I have always been intrigued / put-off by the certification lark in diving.
    Most other sports there isn't the general 'requirement' to do as much training as with diving. Sure, it's dangerous, but then again so is SRT or climbing. No question that you can drown in a few seconds, but a fall's just as bad.

    The cynic could conclude that a lot of the 'training' is self-serving and commercial.

  3. #73
    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardy_uk View Post
    well, you seemed to be suggesting the 50m limit for DL was OK... I don't think it is. like you I dont go much below 35m on air... maybe 40m at a push.. aside from the narc, the other risks are too high. and I dont think DL should allow 50m air dives full stop...
    No, I don't have a problem with the 50m limit. Whilst it may not be ideal, and I wouldn't do it, it is far less mad than the 60mph speed limits carried by many roads.

    I use CCR trimix for most of my diving and wouldn't consider going beyond 25m on open circuit because I consider the risks too high! However, I would not presume to impose my preference on others as they have the freedom to make their own choices, whether I agree or not.

  4. #74
    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Most other sports there isn't the general 'requirement' to do as much training as with diving. Sure, it's dangerous, but then again so is SRT or climbing. No question that you can drown in a few seconds, but a fall's just as bad.
    It seems a bit too prescriptive. To put it into context, what is the largest (non-commercial) boat I can buy and operate without any qualification? Is that perhaps a bigger cause for concern that a bit of narcosis?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    The cynic could conclude that a lot of the 'training' is self-serving and commercial.
    Surely not!

  5. #75
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    Don’t think there’s a maximum size of boat you can operate non-commercially. Probably pilotage rules apply for some ports.

    Most charterers would want a Day Skipper ticket to rent one. Main qualification is money.

  6. #76
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Don’t think there’s a maximum size of boat you can operate non-commercially. Probably pilotage rules apply for some ports.

    Most charterers would want a Day Skipper ticket to rent one. Main qualification is money.
    Correct. In the UK (fairly unusual by world standards) the qualification to operate a pleasure boat is having the dosh to do so. If we are honest the same applies to scuba diving. There are no "qualifications" only a card/stamp to say you have completed training which might be assessed to an agreed level. It would be helpful IMHO if people stopped calling them qualifications. But I agree with the earlier comment most training (and the promotion of it as some sort of "necessity" is driven by the search for revenue (or self importance in clubs..)

    Specifically to the BSAC DL issue I wish that the recommended and accepted view was 40m for DL, giving the more widely accepted view of 40m as the limit for recreational compressed air diving that is pretty much accepted globally. If you are diving overseas in nice blue water most insurance policies have a 40m limit irrespective of the diver's wallet of shiny plastic cards.

    From 40m on there are better gasses and really one should be looking at more rigid protocols. In the BSAC system the Sport Mixed Gas takes over at that point and is a good OC syllabus to follow if you wish to stay "on message". Most deeper (40+) is CCR these days just on gas prices if nothing else and again there are perfectly good ways to train up on that route.

    If I needed to rescue someone at - for example - 47m and I thought I could then I would drop to that without much thought of whether the insurance or any other factor prevented me doing so. I think I am correct in that most insurance policies let you do so.

    Ultimately it's about common sense and intelligent risk management. For that reason I feel that the 50m limit is too high as there are some people that might well see that as a goal. Making it a 40m "limit" and explaining this lets you drop below the SD you are supervising to stop them descending further is a good way to put it. BSAC and it's affiliated clubs could then promote the depth courses for those handful of interested divers that want to progress that aspect of diving. For me the biggest thing missing from DL in terms of depth progression is adequate gas planning.

    Have fun. Dive safe.

    Chris
    (FFESSM N3 - 60m air )

  7. #77
    Established TDF Member MikeF's Avatar
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    .............
    Last edited by MikeF; 16-11-2019 at 08:09 PM.

  8. #78
    Established TDF Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Don’t think there’s a maximum size of boat you can operate non-commercially. Probably pilotage rules apply for some ports.

    Most charterers would want a Day Skipper ticket to rent one. Main qualification is money.
    Actually there is a limit. If you go over 24m or over 80GT for a non commercial pleasure boat you need a qualification.

  9. #79
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    Actually there is a limit. If you go over 24m or over 80GT for a non commercial pleasure boat you need a qualification.
    I didn't know that so googled it (and still don't know if it is absolute fact or not but there is comment to that effect by the RYA but no link to any actual regulations)

    I did have to laugh though as the first thing I found is a forum argument about it - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...equirements-UK

    Must be a forum thing - that could have been on here just as easily. Change a few of the user names and no one would notice.......

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by profpointy View Post
    I have always been intrigued / put-off by the certification lark in diving. My main sport is caving, and it just isn't a thing. You just enquire about the trip before deciding if you are up to it, as my the other participants enquire how much you've done if you are tagging along. Likewise with mountaineering - if you want to climb the North Face of the Eiger in winter, you buy a ticket to Grundewald and off you go. Realistically you don't do that, you work your way up through easier stuff and ask other folk for advice.

    Cave diving is a bit like that too. I understand there's a story of two world class cave divers being invited to do some serious exploratory stuff in Florida, then it emerged that one of them had PADI open water, and the other didn't !

    Doing training on the other hand is nearly always worthwhile, but I must admit, when I got "certified" to do 55m dives, it was realistically way beyond what I was ready for - though I got a lot of the course. And likewise when I was doing 40m dives on a 30m ticket I was conservative and careful and relatively safe arguably
    No one is forced to get qualifications though they might need them to buy equipment or get air fills - there's no dive police to stop someone picking up a load of gear from eBay and jumping in for a cheeky 60m air dive. But would someone sell a load of extreme caving gear to someone with no experience who is openly planning to go and do an extreme cave trip?


 
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