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  1. #1
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    Apeks Regs - Model Types & Differences

    I was originally going to post this on our Club Forum - but maybe I should let the TDF bods find any flaws first! Obviously much of my learning came from here in the first place ...


    CHOICES, CHOICES

    What follows includes some completely personal views. It was compiled wholly from scratch – a task that was initially kicked off by me trying to understand what options are out there. If nothing else, it may at least promote some discussion! My own copy has the massive benefit of some accompanying pictures, which unfortunately can’t be done here. Read with caution – I’m bound to have made the odd mistake / typo / etc.


    WHICH BRAND?

    For the UK, one easy choice is Apeks. They have a bomb-proof reputation, and I’ve yet to find a UK Dive Shop that doesn’t service them. Plus the Apeks factory is local to us in Blackburn. The only down-side I can think of is that they operate a ‘closed shop’ (via their dealer network / service agents) for spares and service kits. Comments are duly invited here from those who take Apeks stuff abroad – are other brands better supported there?


    FIRST STAGE: A-CLAMP OR DIN?

    In this section I’m referring to the original 5/8” DIN, see further below for the M26 Nitrox system.

    Have you heard that phrase often used when Cricketers make the coin toss: “if you win the toss, think very carefully, then bat first”. It’s the same for first stages: think carefully, then buy DIN. There are two main reasons: a) the O-ring gets fully enclosed with DIN, so it’s a safer solution, and b) the overall profile of the DIN first stage is more compact and so less likely to get knocked / damaged / snagged. Just compare the two types side-by-side sometime; it’s easy to see that DIN is the better engineered solution.

    Furthermore, I believe all Apeks DIN first stages are rated to 300 Bar, and so fit equally well into 232 or 300 bar DIN cylinder valves. The A-Clamp system limits you to 232 bar cylinders.

    It’s not a busted flush if you’ve bought the A-Clamp version, DIN conversion kits are available.

    The only exception to the ‘buy DIN’ rule is if you have really old cylinders with valves which only support the A-Clamp system. All newer cylinder valves have inserts which are easily screwed out (with a hexagon key) to convert them from A-Clamp to DIN. I know this used to be a problem occasionally when renting cylinders abroad – is DIN now sufficiently widespread?


    FIRST STAGES: THE APEKS RANGE

    It’s often cost effective for newbies to buy a bundle, i.e. first stage, primary second stage, octopus second stage and possibly some gauges. The type of first stage you’ll get will typically depend on which second stage you chose. Nevertheless, the list below covers the main types of Apeks first stages. The main models are presented roughly in order of increasing cost, with the more specialist types at the bottom.

    Some key design aspects to be aware of are:

    • the number of Low Pressure (LP) and High Pressure (HP) ports: UK single cylinder divers would normally need 4 LP ports, 2 for your second stages, and 1 each for your BC and drysuit hoses. The HP port is for the contents gauge. One gotcha is that you need 2 HP ports if you’re planning on getting an air-integrated dive computer with its dedicated HP sensor.
    • older DS4, DST and possibly FST first stages might have one ½” LP port. The other LP ports - and all LP ports on modern versions – are 3/8”. This is because the older Apeks ‘primary’ second stages were supplied with ½” hoses. This oddity can all be a real pain when planning hose routings, although adaptors are available. The ½” hoses and ports were dropped before the introduction of the XTX range.
    • the different first stage designs facilitate significantly different approaches / opportunities for hose routing.


    US4
    US means unsealed; avoid this for UK diving
    Otherwise this is similar to the DS4 below.

    DS4
    DS stands for Dry (Environmentally) Sealed - the entry level for cold water divers.
    It has 4 LP ports but only 1 HP port.
    Hose routing is fixed (and isn’t brilliant for twinsets, but any DS4 might then get used instead on a stage cylinder).
    It often now comes bundled with ATX40 / XTX40 second stages.

    DST
    The ‘T’ stands for ‘Turret’: the LP ports are on a rotating turret which allows for more flexible hose routing.
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    A 5th LP port is an official and inexpensive aftermarket option (mainly used by twinset divers for improved hose routing).
    It often now comes bundled with XTX50 second stages.

    Tek3
    This is designed for twinset (‘technical’) divers. The hose routings are optimised for this.
    They normally are sold as pair, with a left and right hand version.
    It has only 3 LP ports and 1 HP port.
    It is normally bundled with XTX50 second stages.

    FST
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    It has completely different hose routings to the DS4 / DST
    A 5th LP port is an official aftermarket option.
    It often now comes bundled with XTX100 second stages.

    FSR
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    It has yet another variation of hose routings.
    A 5th LP port is an official aftermarket option.
    It often now comes bundled with XTX200 second stages.
    The only Apeks first stage which has a replaceable HP seat crown.

    MTX-R
    A specialist first stage rated for even colder water.
    Has 5 LP ports as standard, and 2 HP ports.
    Normally bundled with matching MTX-R second stages.

    Status
    Variations of the DST, FST and FSR with embedded monitoring electronics

    Flight
    A specialist extreme light-weight design, unsealed, for warm-water use only.
    Made from high strength polymers.
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    Comes bundled with specialist Flight second stages.

    XL4
    A lightweight travel first stage for cold-water use.
    Based on the DS4, but with a satin finish and more cooling fins.
    It has 4 HP and 1 LP ports.
    Comes bundled with specialist Flight second stages.

    XL4+
    An updated version of the XL4 with 2 HP ports.

    The more expensive models above are often sold as Special Editions (£££), with e.g. Black, Tungsten or Satin finishes.

    OK, so those are the main choices & differences. More controversially, one point that stands out loud and clear in Internet forums is how, in practice, the working internals of most of the above essentially share a common design with the basic DS4. (Which is clearly a brilliant design that has fully stood the test of time). Check out for yourself how all models (except the Flight and Status) share exactly the same first stage service kit. And therefore make your choice with your eyes firmly open as to what extras you get for your money; could it be that the ‘improvements’ are more to do with cosmetics, marketing and ‘status’ than actual breathing performance?

    The author’s own recommendation for an entry-level first stage purchase – which should also survive any subsequent ‘growth’ aspirations - would be the DST.


    SECOND STAGES: THE APEKS RANGE

    I have included many older models, since these are still widely available second-hand.

    TX40
    No longer made.
    It has a large case compared to new models, and a large / wide exhaust ‘T’.
    The X stands for ‘heat eXchanger’; these are cold-water regs.
    An unofficial mod is to buy and fit an aftermarket cracking knob (which essentially makes it a TX50).
    If sold as a primary second stage might be fitted with a ½” hose.

    TX50
    No longer made
    It is basically a TX40 with a cracking pressure adjustment knob fitted as standard.
    Likely to be fitted with a ½” hose.

    TX100
    No longer made
    A rebadged TX50, I believe sold in conjunction with the FST first stage.
    Likely to be fitted with a ½” hose.

    AT20
    A warm water version of the ATX40 below. Avoid.

    ATX40
    A much more compact & lighter model than the TX40. Major cosmetic changes.
    It has a notably narrow exhaust port.
    An unofficial mod is to buy and fit an aftermarket cracking knob (which essentially makes it an ATX50)
    Might be fitted with a ½” hose.
    The current cold water budget model.

    ATX50
    No longer made.
    As per the ATX40 with a cracking pressure adjustment knob.
    Might be fitted with a ½” hose?

    ATX100
    No longer made.
    A rebadged ATX50 I believe originally sold with a FST first stage.

    ATX200
    No longer made.
    A rebadged ATX50 I believe originally sold with a FSR first stage.

    XTX40
    The newest and current compact design.
    It should come with an interchangeable small and large exhaust ‘T’
    It is available with the hose routed in from either side. This can be changed during servicing.
    An unofficial mod is to buy and fit an aftermarket cracking knob (which almost makes it an XTX50)
    It comes with a 3/8” hose.

    XTX50
    As per the XTX40 but with a cracking pressure adjustment knob.
    It also has a second micro adjuster hidden within the main adjustment knob.

    XTX100
    A rebadged XTX50 sold with the FST first stage.

    XTX200
    A rebadged XTX50 sold with the FSR first stage.

    Flight
    Lightweight second stage for travel.
    Rated for cold-water (unlike the Flight first stage)
    Requires a dedicated service kit.

    MTX-R
    A more rugged version of the XTX range, with upgraded heat exchanger fins.
    Notable in having no in-water adjusters.

    Egress
    A puck shaped design for use as an Octopus, works either way up.


    Many of the above are available as an octopus option. These will typically have yellow faceplates and longer yellow (3/8”) hoses. They are otherwise identical.

    Again, when choosing a second stage, do your own careful research on how different the main internal mechanisms actually are. One clue might be that all but the Flight share the identical service kit …

    I’m finding it very hard to make a recommendation here. There’s definitely nothing which would make me avoid well looked-after second-hand items. Some of the older models can be had for real bargain-basement prices, although you‘d always then need to consider servicing and probably hose replacement costs. On the other hand I’ve heard from others who buy brand new regs every couple of years (at ‘sale’ prices), sell on their old stuff, and claim to break even by avoiding servicing costs. (Although do note that Apeks stuff is supposed to be serviced every year, even if for years 1, 3, 5, etc that’s supposed to be just an inspection). My own primary first stage remains the old TX50 I bought nearly 20 years ago - and I see no good reason to, ahem, ‘upgrade’.

    A final thought is that, for Tekkie divers with lots of cylinders, having different types and colours of second stages can help avoid confusion.


    NITROX REGULATORS

    All Apeks first and second stages are rated (from new) for use with up to 40% O2 – it says this on the Apeks website.

    First and second stages sold new for Nitrox use – and I’d hope that the dealer would ask if you intend to use >40% O2 – are sold as dedicated ‘Nitrox’ items. These normally have a least some green coloured parts. The Nitrox option is widely available for most of the mainstream regulator types listed above.

    One key technical difference is that the Nitrox first stages are only available in the DIN style, but with a significantly larger M26 thread. (The original DIN has a 5/8th BSP thread). The M26 design will obviously only fit dedicated M26 cylinder valves. (Don’t confuse this with seeing valves labelled as ‘M25 valves’; M25 is the thread where the valve actually screws down into the cylinder, i.e. it does not refer to the cylinder valve to first stage connection).

    However, whilst the M26 standard is an EU legal requirement, even several years later it has not been widely adopted (by end users at least) in the UK; the main exception appears to be rebreathers.

    My own understanding – and this is the type of thing that all technical divers should do their own homework on – is that, colours aside, all parts (including O-rings and greases) are identical between the equivalent mainstream and Nitrox Apeks regulators. The only difference is that the Nitrox regs are assembled in the factory in a separate laboratory-standard O2 clean zone. My own belief is thus that this subtlety evaporates once the first real-world service gets done. As such, I’d thus personally be happy to use the mainstream models new out of the box for >40% mixes, and then continue to do so subject to verbal understandings reached when getting servicing done. (And obviously I would also then ensure that any such regulators are only used with O2 cleaned and suitably filled cylinders).


    SUGGESTED TRIP SPARES

    I’ve learned the hard way that I should take a spare mouthpiece (with matching cable tie), even for day trips.

    I’ve normally also taken a spare hose and DIN O-rings, and until my daughter acquired it, I used to take a full spare regulator set on longer trips.

  2. #2
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    Really good thanks for compiling

  3. #3
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    A good breakdown, thanks very much!

    Rich

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil R View Post
    The only down-side I can think of is that they operate a ‘closed shop’ (via their dealer network / service agents) for spares and service kits. Comments are duly invited here from those who take Apeks stuff abroad – are other brands better supported there?
    Speaking for Germany, Apeks are very popular here as well, due to the fact that the spares and service kits are readily available . Haven't had any issues traveling abroad, but I do carry 1. and 2. stage travel kits in the unlikely case that I need to fix them.

  5. #5
    TDF Member uncertainplume's Avatar
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    There is also the DS1. I purchased one recently to use on a stage bottle, but find hose managing very awkward: the two outlets are on opposite sides.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neil R View Post
    I was originally going to post this on our Club Forum - but maybe I should let the TDF bods find any flaws first! Obviously much of my learning came from here in the first place ...


    CHOICES, CHOICES

    What follows includes some completely personal views. It was compiled wholly from scratch – a task that was initially kicked off by me trying to understand what options are out there. If nothing else, it may at least promote some discussion! My own copy has the massive benefit of some accompanying pictures, which unfortunately can’t be done here. Read with caution – I’m bound to have made the odd mistake / typo / etc.


    WHICH BRAND?

    For the UK, one easy choice is Apeks. They have a bomb-proof reputation, and I’ve yet to find a UK Dive Shop that doesn’t service them. Plus the Apeks factory is local to us in Blackburn. The only down-side I can think of is that they operate a ‘closed shop’ (via their dealer network / service agents) for spares and service kits. Comments are duly invited here from those who take Apeks stuff abroad – are other brands better supported there?


    FIRST STAGE: A-CLAMP OR DIN?

    In this section I’m referring to the original 5/8” DIN, see further below for the M26 Nitrox system.

    Have you heard that phrase often used when Cricketers make the coin toss: “if you win the toss, think very carefully, then bat first”. It’s the same for first stages: think carefully, then buy DIN. There are two main reasons: a) the O-ring gets fully enclosed with DIN, so it’s a safer solution, and b) the overall profile of the DIN first stage is more compact and so less likely to get knocked / damaged / snagged. Just compare the two types side-by-side sometime; it’s easy to see that DIN is the better engineered solution.

    Furthermore, I believe all Apeks DIN first stages are rated to 300 Bar, and so fit equally well into 232 or 300 bar DIN cylinder valves. The A-Clamp system limits you to 232 bar cylinders.

    It’s not a busted flush if you’ve bought the A-Clamp version, DIN conversion kits are available.

    The only exception to the ‘buy DIN’ rule is if you have really old cylinders with valves which only support the A-Clamp system. All newer cylinder valves have inserts which are easily screwed out (with a hexagon key) to convert them from A-Clamp to DIN. I know this used to be a problem occasionally when renting cylinders abroad – is DIN now sufficiently widespread?


    FIRST STAGES: THE APEKS RANGE

    It’s often cost effective for newbies to buy a bundle, i.e. first stage, primary second stage, octopus second stage and possibly some gauges. The type of first stage you’ll get will typically depend on which second stage you chose. Nevertheless, the list below covers the main types of Apeks first stages. The main models are presented roughly in order of increasing cost, with the more specialist types at the bottom.

    Some key design aspects to be aware of are:

    • the number of Low Pressure (LP) and High Pressure (HP) ports: UK single cylinder divers would normally need 4 LP ports, 2 for your second stages, and 1 each for your BC and drysuit hoses. The HP port is for the contents gauge. One gotcha is that you need 2 HP ports if you’re planning on getting an air-integrated dive computer with its dedicated HP sensor.
    • older DS4, DST and possibly FST first stages might have one ½” LP port. The other LP ports - and all LP ports on modern versions – are 3/8”. This is because the older Apeks ‘primary’ second stages were supplied with ½” hoses. This oddity can all be a real pain when planning hose routings, although adaptors are available. The ½” hoses and ports were dropped before the introduction of the XTX range.
    • the different first stage designs facilitate significantly different approaches / opportunities for hose routing.


    US4
    US means unsealed; avoid this for UK diving
    Otherwise this is similar to the DS4 below.

    DS4
    DS stands for Dry (Environmentally) Sealed - the entry level for cold water divers.
    It has 4 LP ports but only 1 HP port.
    Hose routing is fixed (and isn’t brilliant for twinsets, but any DS4 might then get used instead on a stage cylinder).
    It often now comes bundled with ATX40 / XTX40 second stages.

    DST
    The ‘T’ stands for ‘Turret’: the LP ports are on a rotating turret which allows for more flexible hose routing.
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    A 5th LP port is an official and inexpensive aftermarket option (mainly used by twinset divers for improved hose routing).
    It often now comes bundled with XTX50 second stages.

    Tek3
    This is designed for twinset (‘technical’) divers. The hose routings are optimised for this.
    They normally are sold as pair, with a left and right hand version.
    It has only 3 LP ports and 1 HP port.
    It is normally bundled with XTX50 second stages.

    FST
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    It has completely different hose routings to the DS4 / DST
    A 5th LP port is an official aftermarket option.
    It often now comes bundled with XTX100 second stages.

    FSR
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    It has yet another variation of hose routings.
    A 5th LP port is an official aftermarket option.
    It often now comes bundled with XTX200 second stages.
    The only Apeks first stage which has a replaceable HP seat crown.

    MTX-R
    A specialist first stage rated for even colder water.
    Has 5 LP ports as standard, and 2 HP ports.
    Normally bundled with matching MTX-R second stages.

    Status
    Variations of the DST, FST and FSR with embedded monitoring electronics

    Flight
    A specialist extreme light-weight design, unsealed, for warm-water use only.
    Made from high strength polymers.
    It has 4 LP and 2 HP ports.
    Comes bundled with specialist Flight second stages.

    XL4
    A lightweight travel first stage for cold-water use.
    Based on the DS4, but with a satin finish and more cooling fins.
    It has 4 HP and 1 LP ports.
    Comes bundled with specialist Flight second stages.

    XL4+
    An updated version of the XL4 with 2 HP ports.

    The more expensive models above are often sold as Special Editions (£££), with e.g. Black, Tungsten or Satin finishes.

    OK, so those are the main choices & differences. More controversially, one point that stands out loud and clear in Internet forums is how, in practice, the working internals of most of the above essentially share a common design with the basic DS4. (Which is clearly a brilliant design that has fully stood the test of time). Check out for yourself how all models (except the Flight and Status) share exactly the same first stage service kit. And therefore make your choice with your eyes firmly open as to what extras you get for your money; could it be that the ‘improvements’ are more to do with cosmetics, marketing and ‘status’ than actual breathing performance?

    The author’s own recommendation for an entry-level first stage purchase – which should also survive any subsequent ‘growth’ aspirations - would be the DST.


    SECOND STAGES: THE APEKS RANGE

    I have included many older models, since these are still widely available second-hand.

    TX40
    No longer made.
    It has a large case compared to new models, and a large / wide exhaust ‘T’.
    The X stands for ‘heat eXchanger’; these are cold-water regs.
    An unofficial mod is to buy and fit an aftermarket cracking knob (which essentially makes it a TX50).
    If sold as a primary second stage might be fitted with a ½” hose.

    TX50
    No longer made
    It is basically a TX40 with a cracking pressure adjustment knob fitted as standard.
    Likely to be fitted with a ½” hose.

    TX100
    No longer made
    A rebadged TX50, I believe sold in conjunction with the FST first stage.
    Likely to be fitted with a ½” hose.

    AT20
    A warm water version of the ATX40 below. Avoid.

    ATX40
    A much more compact & lighter model than the TX40. Major cosmetic changes.
    It has a notably narrow exhaust port.
    An unofficial mod is to buy and fit an aftermarket cracking knob (which essentially makes it an ATX50)
    Might be fitted with a ½” hose.
    The current cold water budget model.

    ATX50
    No longer made.
    As per the ATX40 with a cracking pressure adjustment knob.
    Might be fitted with a ½” hose?

    ATX100
    No longer made.
    A rebadged ATX50 I believe originally sold with a FST first stage.

    ATX200
    No longer made.
    A rebadged ATX50 I believe originally sold with a FSR first stage.

    XTX40
    The newest and current compact design.
    It should come with an interchangeable small and large exhaust ‘T’
    It is available with the hose routed in from either side. This can be changed during servicing.
    An unofficial mod is to buy and fit an aftermarket cracking knob (which almost makes it an XTX50)
    It comes with a 3/8” hose.

    XTX50
    As per the XTX40 but with a cracking pressure adjustment knob.
    It also has a second micro adjuster hidden within the main adjustment knob.

    XTX100
    A rebadged XTX50 sold with the FST first stage.

    XTX200
    A rebadged XTX50 sold with the FSR first stage.

    Flight
    Lightweight second stage for travel.
    Rated for cold-water (unlike the Flight first stage)
    Requires a dedicated service kit.

    MTX-R
    A more rugged version of the XTX range, with upgraded heat exchanger fins.
    Notable in having no in-water adjusters.

    Egress
    A puck shaped design for use as an Octopus, works either way up.


    Many of the above are available as an octopus option. These will typically have yellow faceplates and longer yellow (3/8”) hoses. They are otherwise identical.

    Again, when choosing a second stage, do your own careful research on how different the main internal mechanisms actually are. One clue might be that all but the Flight share the identical service kit …

    I’m finding it very hard to make a recommendation here. There’s definitely nothing which would make me avoid well looked-after second-hand items. Some of the older models can be had for real bargain-basement prices, although you‘d always then need to consider servicing and probably hose replacement costs. On the other hand I’ve heard from others who buy brand new regs every couple of years (at ‘sale’ prices), sell on their old stuff, and claim to break even by avoiding servicing costs. (Although do note that Apeks stuff is supposed to be serviced every year, even if for years 1, 3, 5, etc that’s supposed to be just an inspection). My own primary first stage remains the old TX50 I bought nearly 20 years ago - and I see no good reason to, ahem, ‘upgrade’.

    A final thought is that, for Tekkie divers with lots of cylinders, having different types and colours of second stages can help avoid confusion.


    NITROX REGULATORS

    All Apeks first and second stages are rated (from new) for use with up to 40% O2 – it says this on the Apeks website.

    First and second stages sold new for Nitrox use – and I’d hope that the dealer would ask if you intend to use >40% O2 – are sold as dedicated ‘Nitrox’ items. These normally have a least some green coloured parts. The Nitrox option is widely available for most of the mainstream regulator types listed above.

    One key technical difference is that the Nitrox first stages are only available in the DIN style, but with a significantly larger M26 thread. (The original DIN has a 5/8th BSP thread). The M26 design will obviously only fit dedicated M26 cylinder valves. (Don’t confuse this with seeing valves labelled as ‘M25 valves’; M25 is the thread where the valve actually screws down into the cylinder, i.e. it does not refer to the cylinder valve to first stage connection).

    However, whilst the M26 standard is an EU legal requirement, even several years later it has not been widely adopted (by end users at least) in the UK; the main exception appears to be rebreathers.

    My own understanding – and this is the type of thing that all technical divers should do their own homework on – is that, colours aside, all parts (including O-rings and greases) are identical between the equivalent mainstream and Nitrox Apeks regulators. The only difference is that the Nitrox regs are assembled in the factory in a separate laboratory-standard O2 clean zone. My own belief is thus that this subtlety evaporates once the first real-world service gets done. As such, I’d thus personally be happy to use the mainstream models new out of the box for >40% mixes, and then continue to do so subject to verbal understandings reached when getting servicing done. (And obviously I would also then ensure that any such regulators are only used with O2 cleaned and suitably filled cylinders).


    SUGGESTED TRIP SPARES

    I’ve learned the hard way that I should take a spare mouthpiece (with matching cable tie), even for day trips.

    I’ve normally also taken a spare hose and DIN O-rings, and until my daughter acquired it, I used to take a full spare regulator set on longer trips.

  6. #6
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Pretty good TBH covers quite a lot, but just to fill in a few gaps and i'm assuming this is as much
    a be careful when buying s/hand crib sheet as well as an info sheet.

    In no particular order and appolgies if I I've duplicated or missed anything and if anybody has added stuff while I've been typing .

    Din vs A
    The yoke on some older A clamps are smaller and these often struggle with some plugged din cylinder valves.
    Inside the yoke where it attaches to the culinders should bea white disc filter, slightly brown ok, really brown or black!!! not so good.
    Instead of the disc may well be a cone filter, using a torch this should be a goold coulour, ifb it's really green and cridded up aganin not so good.
    While this may be a retro fit the knob on an older A-clamp is less tactile and smaller and can help dating.
    Again could be retro, but orginal din wheels are knurled, later have grooves and then they became almost sculpted this can date the unit.
    A spare o-ring can be found on the rubber bung of the dust cap on an A-clamp and the top of the cap on a Din.
    Apeks used different coulour inserts in the window of the DST a yellow/line green sort of colour is an oilder one.

    First Stages
    The US4 is used in the UK on RB's
    Not strictly Apeks, but worth mentioning. If buying a US4 as part pf a set be wary and check any gauges as these might be in PSI/Feet.
    The DS1 is a DS4 with a single port used for suit inflation

    Second Stages
    The early regs still come up on ebay all the time and are often confused with TX40's as they have the same body size.
    T20, T40. TD40. TD50, Reflex etc. all best to be avoided if not sure what they are.
    The ATX 40 has an integral exhaust port which cannot unlike it's brother the XTX be swapped out for a larger exhaust which deflect bubbles
    away from the face.
    Early ATX40's Octopus the plastic is a lemon yellow, later ones a sharper deeper colour.
    Octo hoses are 90cm from stock which are not great if the owner is larger.
    Later Stage 3 kits (!st, 2nd and 3rd) the serial numbers all match (serial number on a 2nd stage can be found on the lip of the moulding
    under the mouthpeice).

    Spares
    The opening where the mouthpeice sits is larger so ideally need to use Apeks. Other brands may split or distort so pack an Apeks spare
    if poss.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    The DS1 is a DS4 with a single port used for suit inflation
    That's a terrible idea, don't do it.
    The US1 is meant for pony bottles that have a second stage on them and nothing else.

    If the HP seat fails it will likely blow your suit inflate valve or the hose to bits as there's no way (without stupid adapters) to fit an OPV.

  8. #8
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFO View Post
    That's a terrible idea, don't do it.
    The US1 is meant for pony bottles that have a second stage on them and nothing else.

    If the HP seat fails it will likely blow your suit inflate valve or the hose to bits as there's no way (without stupid adapters) to fit an OPV.

    Well I didn't think it needed that much detail, but hey

    The US1/DS1 was orginally designed for ponies & commercial work with one LP & 1 HP port at a time when it was
    common to use adapters on first stages to add LP ports. Since then the use has expanded as diving changed and
    with many already in divers possesion got repurposed for suit inflate. These are a simple LP hose going direct to a
    drysuit inlet and is still a fairly common rig. .

    Nowdays and with the systems being used a lot more, especially in the tec realm a over pressure relief valve in
    some circles is reccommended. Those already with a DS1 and a handy adapter, for the cost of about £25 a OPRV
    can be added. For those buying new or S/h not a lot of point as the DS4 is more plentiful anyway and negates
    the need for the adapter.

    Is it wrong or a bad idea NOT to have a OPRV? Comes down to the old assessment of what is a very low risk and
    how often this is likely to happen if at all, how catastrophic and even then how effective any protocols that are in
    place to deal with it. Old school tend to be happy, the young turks not so much, so you takes your choice

  9. #9
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Well I didn't think it needed that much detail, but hey

    The US1/DS1 was orginally designed for ponies & commercial work with one LP & 1 HP port at a time when it was
    common to use adapters on first stages to add LP ports. Since then the use has expanded as diving changed and
    with many already in divers possesion got repurposed for suit inflate. These are a simple LP hose going direct to a
    drysuit inlet and is still a fairly common rig. .

    Nowdays and with the systems being used a lot more, especially in the tec realm a over pressure relief valve in
    some circles is reccommended. Those already with a DS1 and a handy adapter, for the cost of about £25 a OPRV
    can be added. For those buying new or S/h not a lot of point as the DS4 is more plentiful anyway and negates
    the need for the adapter.

    Is it wrong or a bad idea NOT to have a OPRV? Comes down to the old assessment of what is a very low risk and
    how often this is likely to happen if at all, how catastrophic and even then how effective any protocols that are in
    place to deal with it. Old school tend to be happy, the young turks not so much, so you takes your choice
    I had a DST on a suit. Old reg that was doing nothing and I needed a suit reg. OPV fitted but turned out it was stuck closed.

    HP seat failed.

    Blew the suit valve off the suit just as I was getting into the water. Back out, dekit, fix the valve.

    5 mins later another loud bang and the reg had blown itself apart.

    New OPVs fitted to all regs that needed an OPV and a new DS4 fitted to the suit.

    OPVs are needed and need to work. If the suit valve had blown apart in the water it would have been a serious flood in a winter quarry
    Remember anything you read on the internet was probably written by some guy sitting at home in his underpants! Including this !!

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  10. #10
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo View Post
    I had a DST on a suit. Old reg that was doing nothing and I needed a suit reg. OPV fitted but turned out it was stuck closed.

    HP seat failed.

    Blew the suit valve off the suit just as I was getting into the water. Back out, dekit, fix the valve.

    5 mins later another loud bang and the reg had blown itself apart.

    New OPVs fitted to all regs that needed an OPV and a new DS4 fitted to the suit.

    OPVs are needed and need to work. If the suit valve had blown apart in the water it would have been a serious flood in a winter quarry


    Not knocking your choice of a OPV especially if you've had first hand experience of one go, but if an old 1st stage fails because it's not
    been serviced/checked, surely the moral that should be taken away from that is it should be serviced/checked before anything else is considered?


 
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