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  1. #31
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Dive Leader - 20 dives of 600 mins in total, covering a range of conditions and at least 6 of them must be from a boat.

  2. #32
    TDF Member Alex Denny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Dive Leader - 20 dives of 600 mins in total, covering a range of conditions and at least 6 of them must be from a boat.
    20, 10 hour dives? On a single 7l cylinder I presume? ;-)

  3. #33
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jturner View Post
    It is subjective but there's guidance as to what is and isn't acceptable, so it is still possible that you would have no choice. I'd hope the DM in question would have the good sense to respond to some gentle counselling, suggesting that Stoney alone isn't going to be all that great an experience level, so even if they never were going to dive elsewhere, how can they share their experiences of tides, waves etc and inspirational tales of great dives with students?!
    Criteria 2 states "Ability to serve as a mentor to student divers."

    Criteria 6 states "General understanding of a divemaster’s role."

    Either would do for me (in terms of the OP)
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  4. #34
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Bullen View Post
    There are good divemasters and there are crap ones, there are good DL's and some bloody awful ones, same for instructors. The point, not so subtly made by the OP is correct, there are theoretically and quirte probably both PADI DM's and Instructors who have never dived anywhere except a muddy puddle and I wouldn't want to dive with them or hve any of them teach my kids. But I wouldn't be surprised if the same or similar could be said of DL's and OWSI's carrying BSAC cards. I don't know the actual BSAC stats but in most cases I suspect that the main reason it takes longer to get to DL under the BSAC regime has more to do with the club system and available instructors rather than anything else. Can anyone enlighten me, what are the absolute minimum number of dives a DL must do to get his qual? And must he/she dive in the sea, at altitude, in cold water etc to get it or is it subject to where he/she can get to dive?

    As always there is a fair amount of kneejerk agency bashing in evidence here, I did my divemaster in the Med, which can be benign, shallow, warm etc and of course much more. I've also dived in the UK, the Atlantic, the Carribean, most of the African countries on the Indian Ocean and a couple bordering the Atlantic, I've dived in Aus and Asia, the Black Sea and the Red Sea but I didn't need to tell you any of that, I've met some peole's prejudices by admitting that I did my DM in the Med. The fact is that in the last 10 years working as a pro in the Med, many of the worst "experieced" divers I have seen have been BSAC divers but I (for some strange reason) have managed to stay away from stereotyping all BSAC divers as crap because of the mostly, older, DL, instructor and 1st class divers I have seen whose idea of buoyancy control is pulling themselves down a shotline, crawling across a wreck or reef and then back up a shotline or hanging off an SMB! I would add that I've also dived with some brilliant divers who carry the BSAC card but they, like me understand that diving is about skills not agencies.
    No agency bashing Pete, merely discussing whether a Dive Master Trainee should expect to get signed off with a log book of 60 dives all conducted at Stoney Cove.
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  5. #35
    I used to be Cheeky UnCheeky Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    So a very experinced DM in a location that only has shore dives must be crap then.

    Or maybe he's just really shit hot in that location and the so called all-rounder DM
    who has done a handfful of boat dives is the crap one.

    Trouble with all this is it's the usual BS of talking absolutes.
    The world is a big place and just because a diver/DM/Inst choses to be in one location
    or specialise, does not define his/her comptence.
    For me, it should be an essential part of the first level of professional qualification that the person in question has not only competence but also a breadth of experience.

    Defining the required breadth may be the problem.

    But the notion of someone becoming a qualified dive professional in the largest commercial teaching organisation worldwide having only ever dived in one location is simply bonkers in my view

  6. #36
    Established TDF Member Wardy_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Dive Leader - 20 dives of 600 mins in total, covering a range of conditions and at least 6 of them must be from a boat.
    That’s not quite true. 20 past SD, yes... but overall minimum is 60 dives, of which 40 have to be post OD

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    So a very experinced DM in a location that only has shore dives must be crap then.

    Or maybe he's just really shit hot in that location and the so called all-rounder DM
    who has done a handfful of boat dives is the crap one.

    Trouble with all this is it's the usual BS of talking absolutes.
    The world is a big place and just because a diver/DM/Inst choses to be in one location
    or specialise, does not define his/her comptence.
    Don't forget a lot of the worlds dm's are born and bred in that particular area and have been given the chance to become dm's and have no plan to leave the area where their family lives. Usually these are the best dm's to be showing the sites and know the waters well.

  8. #38
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhite View Post
    Don't forget a lot of the worlds dm's are born and bred in that particular area and have been given the chance to become dm's and have no plan to leave the area where their family lives. Usually these are the best dm's to be showing the sites and know the waters well.
    That is precisely the point I was making

    I've seen (like I suspect many of us) guides/DM's around the world who have shown themselves to
    be vaslty superior in all aspescts to many so-called 'experinced' divers without ever having
    dived anywhere else.

  9. #39
    I used to be Cheeky UnCheeky Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    That is precisely the point I was making

    I've seen (like I suspect many of us) guides/DM's around the world who have shown themselves to
    be vaslty superior in all aspescts to many so-called 'experinced' divers without ever having
    dived anywhere else.
    OK fair enough

    But not Stoney

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    But Tel, youre doing a disservice to your years of extensive experience born from many years of diving Id a wide range of environments. Precisely the same experience lacking from the trainee DiveMasters.

    Actually its worse than that as you can start the DiveMaster with 50 dives with includes all the dives for OW, AOW and Rescue Diver. By definition no experience required
    But if you start the dm course with 50 at the right place, in the right environment you may actually come a good dm with hundreds of dive and plenty of experience?


 
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