Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 31
  1. #21
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    539
    Likes (Given)
    162
    Likes (Received)
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by topper133 View Post
    That is irrelevant to the attitude of "if working remotely you don't have to work", don't get me wrong I'm not about sitting at a desk at home 9-5 it's about outcomes, but the attitude is plain wrong.

    As for the notice period, if you don't like it don't sign up for it, I have negotiatied plenty back to 1 month, but don't forget it works both ways, 12 weeks is great if they lay you off....... (assumed reciprocal which most are).
    I wasn't suggesting it as an attitude to take, I was suggesting it as a resolution to this specific scenario when faced with an highly unreasonable notice period. Most employers will want someone to start a new job in a month, 12 weeks as a notice period is specifically to try and stop people from leaving your company in order to find better jobs, which is not only unreasonable, its immoral.

    As taz has already said, the notice period was changed after he had already been in the job 18 months, and expecting someone to either leave with no notice due to a forced changed in contract within 18 months of getting a new job is also unreasonable and immoral.

    Employees do not owe employers anything, they are trading their time for incentive. The sooner that attitude permeates working culture, the better workers rights will become.
    Last edited by sim667; 25-09-2019 at 01:59 PM.

  2. #22
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    539
    Likes (Given)
    162
    Likes (Received)
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by John63 View Post
    its actually not uncommon for senior staff / managers or for employees with a role that can be considered critical to the company and / or difficult to replace ( eg those with a specialised skillset or requirements for security vetting) 12 weeks gives the employer chance to put alternate in place .

    OP has already said that he is difficut to replace and in previous thread ( his link) he mentioned that -- " it is a very niche market and only a very few people do it at this level and I am very well placed "


    That's the employers problem, not Taz's.


    The notice period would have formed part of the initial offer / contract that he received so should have been raised at that point if it was a true concern. As others have said, 12 weeks is a nice pay off if terminated.


    However, if the workload requirement / expectations from company have changed significantly or if they have failed to put inplace appropriate support then there is room for - eg company has not fulfilled its obligtion ( or role changed without agreement) and therefore notice period could be negotiated

    in the past I had a job subject to 12 weeks notice period. It was great. Lined up new job with agreed start date, resigned, carried out handover to new guy for a few weeks then had several weeks on full pay "gardening leave" to chill before starting with new employer.
    Taz has said the change to 12 week notice period was forced on him after working there for 18 months.

  3. #23
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Retired in Middle East- for now
    Posts
    1,311
    Likes (Given)
    65
    Likes (Received)
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by sim667 View Post
    [/I]That's the employers problem, not Tazs
    It’s the reason for 12 months notice and is his problem if he accepted - whether immediately or through a subsequent change.

    Quote Originally Posted by sim667 View Post
    Taz has said the change to 12 week notice period was forced on him after working there for 18 months.
    He posted that after my post and didn’t actually use the term “forced”.

    As I read it, after working at the company for over a year and understanding the new demands on his working time he received changed terms, with which he did not argue or raise issue with at that time,( maybe he did but doesn’t say so ) he put his name on them and sent back by ( company ?) email.

    I think that would be construed as acceptance as emails now do constitute legal documents.

    Just my opinion though as I am not an employment lawyer and not up to date with the nuances of UK employment law.

    I hope he gets the matter sorted.

  4. #24
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    539
    Likes (Given)
    162
    Likes (Received)
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by John63 View Post
    It’s the reason for 12 months notice and is his problem if he accepted - whether immediately or through a subsequent change.



    He posted that after my post and didn’t actually use the term “forced”.

    As I read it, after working at the company for over a year and understanding the new demands on his working time he received changed terms, with which he did not argue or raise issue with at that time,( maybe he did but doesn’t say so ) he put his name on them and sent back by ( company ?) email.

    I think that would be construed as acceptance as emails now do constitute legal documents.

    Just my opinion though as I am not an employment lawyer and not up to date with the nuances of UK employment law.

    I hope he gets the matter sorted.
    If they're changing the terms of employment after employment is started, you're effectively forced to take it if you've no other job to leave to go to straightaway.

    So yeah, in short, he doesn't really owe them anything, the main interest is either completing his notice or getting out of his notice period with the minimum of impact to himself.

  5. #25
    TDF Member Moleshome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Berkshire
    Posts
    459
    Likes (Given)
    246
    Likes (Received)
    134
    A few years ago my company decided to send out new contracts of employment that stated all people above a certain grade now needed to give three month's notice.

    After a couple of months HR started chasing me to sign it, "Umm, no thanks I'm happy with the current situation where you have to give me three months and I give you one." "We wouldn't hold you to it" they said, "We'd only insist on one month". "That's ok then, no need to change anything"

    I believe that actually whether I signed it or not is irrelevant, by continuing to turn up at work and accept payment for doing so I am deemed to have accepted the new terms.

  6. #26
    I used to be Cheeky UnCheeky Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    791
    Likes (Given)
    374
    Likes (Received)
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by Moleshome View Post
    A few years ago my company decided to send out new contracts of employment that stated all people above a certain grade now needed to give three month's notice.

    After a couple of months HR started chasing me to sign it, "Umm, no thanks I'm happy with the current situation where you have to give me three months and I give you one." "We wouldn't hold you to it" they said, "We'd only insist on one month". "That's ok then, no need to change anything"

    I believe that actually whether I signed it or not is irrelevant, by continuing to turn up at work and accept payment for doing so I am deemed to have accepted the new terms.
    not so sure about that - you expressly rejected the new terms

  7. #27
    Established TDF Member taz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Yorkshire of course.
    Posts
    682
    Likes (Given)
    534
    Likes (Received)
    281
    Hi guys

    I was not forced to sign the 12 weeks clause, it was part of my previous jobs term and conditions and in principle I'm not against it, I did sign it.

    So thanks for the advice guys, I think I know my options and I'm not the kind of person who puts his head too high above the parapet. I just do what's expected and get on with it.

    So if the company felt so aggrieved they could choose to chase me financially but they could not stop me leaving.

    The same company are quite corporate and they have been known to make decisions that prove staff are payroll numbers and not people. They made about 20 people redundant with a month's notice but made effective instantly the 2nd week before Christmas and a few months ago they made two administrators redundant with immediate effect and they were basically escorted out of the office.

    I'm mobile so have no ties to the office and as good as I have been treated I do have to earn my keep and I have more and more out on me and my area can include me working Birmingham, Bristol, London and Edinburgh.

    So in short they are a corporate company and they might take exception to the short notice so it is something that I do have to take into consideration.

    I do appreciate the advice guys and it has helped to clarify my position.

    😀
    taz.

  8. #28
    I used to be Cheeky UnCheeky Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    791
    Likes (Given)
    374
    Likes (Received)
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by taz View Post
    So if the company felt so aggrieved they could choose to chase me financially but they could not stop me leaving.
    they could potentially stop you starting somewhere else for 12 weeks though - if they wanted to go that route

    here is a recent example https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/forma...2017/1321.html

  9. #29
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Wrexham
    Posts
    5,043
    Likes (Given)
    2672
    Likes (Received)
    1821
    Quote Originally Posted by UnCheeky Monkey View Post
    not so sure about that - you expressly rejected the new terms
    Tell Borris that!

    Friend of mine was an IT contractor at a bank, after many months as a contractor, they sent him a permanent contract. I believe it was tied into the IR35/ sole employer mess.

    He ignored them for several months, until they did the still turning up=acceptance routine.


    Then he went somewhere else.

  10. #30
    Could start a fight in a convent. Mikael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Eastbourne
    Posts
    4,049
    Likes (Given)
    1115
    Likes (Received)
    1300
    Taz, could you talk to your two new prospective employers and get one of them to agree to a start in three months time but with the promise that if you can get away earlier you will start earlier? Then go to your current employer and see what can be done. Either way you'll be covered.
    Why is it that with everything in life I always find a more difficult way of doing it (and not intentionally)


 
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •