Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
When attending any course, prior to joining you have to have achieved the required standard. Every agency I have trained with does an assessment to confirm that you are at the correct level. The first dive on the ADP course checks the student can do the basics to the correct standard. Fin pivots is an easy starting point to demonstrate bouancy control
Like the other more fashionable agencies a BSAC instructor will formulate a plan to ensure at the end of the course the student meets the requred standard. This could mean explaining that the student needs to go away and improve his skills. More likely the instructor will now know any areas that need additional work
Last edited by bottle maker; 01-09-2019 at 03:28 PM.
Reason: Did not think first post had loaded
Maybe it's just me, but fin pivots are for the most novice of students, not even open water qualified.
If someone's going to sign up for ADP -- or *any* other advanced course -- they should be able to demonstrate neutral buoyancy and changing depth by a metre or two to a new level. Someone who needs to touch the bottom for pretty much anything is demonstrating that they don't have the core skills.
As for *teaching* to use the bottom for buoyancy, even if it is a test ...
It's not just you, others also live in a world where Santa and the Easter Bunny are real
Originally Posted by Wibs
As far as I’m concerned, there’s no mask drills - which is a win in my book - so they can do all the fin pivots they like
I think we're probably in broad agreement here.
Originally Posted by Tel
I'm not keen on getting into real deco with someone that can't do buoyancy so regardless of the gold standard etc we'll be having a dive first to check they know what they're doing. That's the sheltered water thing; I see that as a go not go for the real dives and a place for minor tweaks rather than teaching basic skills.
I'd go a bit further.... If you're diving a twinset and not capable of neutral buoyancy you're not capable of adding a deco stage. And if you're diving a single cylinder you probably want to consider the issues of deco without redundancy; I know BSAC are a broad church allowing any configuration other than the most logical but prohibited but I'd strongly discourage single cylinders and deco.
Originally Posted by witchieblackcat
What a poor BSAC instructor you are... It's like you're not even trying to recommend the 15L single, 3L deco gas + 3L pony
Originally Posted by NWdiver
The space shuttle configuration has no place in diving.
Recently on a boat with a diver who had a 15 litre with H valve, 3L of 50%, and a 3L pony of air.
3L of 50% is a pretty poor choice of deco gas so I'm guessing it was just there (along with the other regulator on the 15L) to spice up the excitement of an OOG event. 4 regs to choose from... like PO2 roullette.
The problem with the ADP (at least in my experience of seeing it run) is that too much is focused on ticking off the skills (that nobody can agree on) over the course of the 3 dives. There seems to be much less of an emphasis on making people think about what they're actually doing.
The prereqs should mean reasonable bouyancy control. There's no teaching of twinset skills etc, as they're taught elsewhere and are variable depending on config (or not required in case of the space shuttle). So I often see the ADP being treated little more than "take that reg out, put that one in". Job done, signed off. Often very little theory.
In reality, the theory should be much more in depth. Thinking issues through and discussing them rules out a lot of the nonsense setups. Then you just need a couple of dives to drill your gas switch procedure.... although that requires some kind of standardisation so it's probably a can of worms
I guess they use 50% because that's what the GOO use so it's right? Personally I prefer 60% if deep or 100% (I know that's not allowed on ADP just in case the diver loses their buoyancy) if shallower.
As you say, the theory is there to make divers think about their options and why they're choosing them.
I'm no fan of the Ox-Stop tables and prefer to use vPlanner or similar because that's somewhat more logical and uniform with the rest of the world. I see little point in building on the BSAC-88s with yet another lash up when there are more logical solutions out there. BSAC purists (surely a contradiction is terms ) will argue that the tables allow us to teach how they work but being as we have a reasonably educated diver they really ought to already know that.
The actual dives really ought to be a loosener in benign conditions to make sure all the kit and basic skills are good before a couple of planned deco dives, the first lead by the instructor and the second where the instructor is pretty much somewhere in the blue/green just keeping an eye on things but lead by the students. A pass means that the instructor would be happy for the student to control their buoyancy with real deco (obviously that;s a bit impossible but you get the idea)
I guess the important thing to remember is that you could be taking this course as a sports diver with as few as 30 or so dives, and have little experience of actually planning dives yourself...
I’m going in with just over a hundred dives at least half of which have been with a twin set, and almost always planned using GF’s... I’ve only looked at the BSAC tables 2 or 3 times and all of those have either been in theory lessons or for the exams...