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Thread: Bsac adp

  1. #11
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Fin Pivots are part of the confined stage and as I said in my OP although this is called confined it's
    acceptable and often done in benign open water conditions upto a max of 10m.

    Current Instructor Manual - Page 108
    Bottom Phase

    Fin pivots
    Fin pivots are the obvious place to start as they are simple and indicate basic neutral buoyancy.
    This is the point where weight may be added or removed to establish a basic setting
    of weighting for neutral buoyancy, bearing in mind that the students will need to be slightly
    heavy as gas depletion will cause them to be slightly more positively buoyant towards the end
    on any dive.

  2. #12
    Established TDF Member witchieblackcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Fin Pivots are part of the confined stage and as I said in my OP although this is called confined it's
    acceptable and often done in benign open water conditions upto a max of 10m.

    Current Instructor Manual - Page 108
    Bottom Phase

    Fin pivots
    Fin pivots are the obvious place to start as they are simple and indicate basic neutral buoyancy.
    This is the point where weight may be added or removed to establish a basic setting
    of weighting for neutral buoyancy, bearing in mind that the students will need to be slightly
    heavy as gas depletion will cause them to be slightly more positively buoyant towards the end
    on any dive.
    As I said before, the diver really ought to be able to buoyancy already.
    If they need to touch the bottom then they're not ready.

  3. #13
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchieblackcat View Post
    As I said before, the diver really ought to be able to buoyancy already.
    If they need to touch the bottom then they're not ready.
    Which is kinda the point and why it's done at the start of the confined section.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchieblackcat View Post
    As I said before, the diver really ought to be able to buoyancy already.
    If they need to touch the bottom then they're not ready.
    remember there are some, not many, that do the B&T then not dive for months and think they can just carry on without re-defining their skills.

  5. #15
    Established TDF Member witchieblackcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Which is kinda the point and why it's done at the start of the confined section.
    They're supposed to be Gold buoyancy and trim

  6. #16
    Established TDF Member witchieblackcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward3c View Post
    remember there are some, not many, that do the B&T then not dive for months and think they can just carry on without re-defining their skills.
    Then they probably need to have a little practise before going on a more advanced course.

  7. #17
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchieblackcat View Post
    They're supposed to be Gold buoyancy and trim
    Just read the preceding paragraph in the manual.

  8. #18
    Established TDF Member witchieblackcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Just read the preceding paragraph in the manual.
    Terry,

    It may say it in the manual but I'd not be happy that a student is ready to do ADP if they're not in control of their buoyancy.
    Therefore if I have to teach the basics of this with fin pivots they're not ready.

    I know this doesn't fit in with your cosy BSAC world but I'm more concerned with not killing and injuring people that are trying to dive beyond their abilities. Just because they got a badge a while back does not mean they're still good for the skills and if they're rusty they need to practise to get to their previous skill level BEFORE they go on another course.

  9. #19
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    How do you know the student on any course is at the required standard? By running through some skills that should easily be achievable. If the student does not achieve the required standard then the necessary remedial work can be planned.

    It is not a case of teaching new skills but confirming that the student is at the required standard exactly the same as all the other agencies I have done courses with...

    Graham

  10. #20
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchieblackcat View Post
    Terry,

    It may say it in the manual but I'd not be happy that a student is ready to do ADP if they're not in control of their buoyancy.
    Therefore if I have to teach the basics of this with fin pivots they're not ready.

    I know this doesn't fit in with your cosy BSAC world but I'm more concerned with not killing and injuring people that are trying to dive beyond their abilities. Just because they got a badge a while back does not mean they're still good for the skills and if they're rusty they need to practise to get to their previous skill level BEFORE they go on another course.

    Cosy BSAC world, LOL

    In my BSAC world I have no idea what this diver is like, he's a complete unknown to me and could well be
    talking porkies out of his behind for all I know.

    Sure he's showing me a Gold standard no different than any other diver that has a pre-rec to get on any
    course and yes they may be billy-whiz on the theory and talk the talk, but until you get in the water and
    are proven otherwise, the safe assumption should always be that the standard is NOT what it's
    supposed to be.

    Again read the manual. Nobody teaches fin pivots, it's expected at this level the diver should do this as
    easy as swapping a mask and if not and unhappy at that point, time to call a halt to the course.


 
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