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Thread: DIY advice.

  1. #1
    Established TDF Member Finless's Avatar
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    DIY advice.

    Thanks to some local yoofs I have to replace a broken downpipe at work. Because everything has been bonded from the gutter to the floor I am uncertain as to some points concerning the repair.

    1. The existing joints on the downpipe have been bonded and I can't get anything to come apart without cutting. Is bonding necessary when I put it back together?

    2. I think that I have read that I need to leave some room for expansion of the pipe? How does that work if the joints are all bonded? Having said that, the pipe does not go into a drain so I suppose the bottom of the pipe could be left an inch short of the floor?

    3. This is the real killer for me (there is a huge hole in my knowledge) but I don't know what wall fixings to use. The wall is rendered breeze block and what size/type/rawl plugs/screws should I use for the pipe clips and what size drill bit compared to the size of rawl plug? Presumably, I should use stainless steel screws?

    4. Hmmm, breeze block. Do I even need rawl plugs? Maybe I could use some hex washer head self tapping(?) screws?

    As ever, thanks in advance for all replies and advice.
    Last edited by Finless; 24-07-2019 at 11:34 AM.

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    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finless View Post
    Thanks to some local yoofs I have to replace a broken downpipe at work. Because everything has been bonded from the gutter to the floor I am uncertain as to some points concerning the repair.

    1. The existing joints on the downpipe have been bonded and I can't get anything to come apart without cutting. Is bonding necessary when I put it back together?

    2. I think that I have read that I need to leave some room for expansion of the pipe? How does that work if the joints are all bonded? Having said that, the pipe does not go into a drain so I suppose the bottom of the pipe could be left an inch short of the floor?

    3. This is the real killer for me (there is a huge hole in my knowledge) but I don't know what wall fixings to use. The wall is rendered breeze block and what size/type/rawl plugs/screws should I use for the pipe clips and what size drill bit compared to the size of rawl plug? Presumably, I should use stainless steel screws?

    4. Hmmm, breeze block. Do I even need rawl plugs? Maybe I could use some hex washer head self tapping(?) screws?

    As ever, thanks in advance for all replies and advice.
    Rawl plugs have a drill size guide on the packet.
    Wall bracket will be labeled with the screw size.
    Screws will be galvanised, stainless is too expensive for builders.
    Old PVC systems were stuck together with solvent, most are now push fit, less effort, less cost, less dodgy fumes/chemicals.

  3. #3
    Established TDF Member Finless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    Rawl plugs have a drill size guide on the packet.
    Wall bracket will be labeled with the screw size.
    Screws will be galvanised, stainless is too expensive for builders.
    Old PVC systems were stuck together with solvent, most are now push fit, less effort, less cost, less dodgy fumes/chemicals.
    I'll have a look at the rawl plugs - I've got hundreds of them but not many packets.

    Wall bracket (from Wickes) does not have any info on it. I do know that I shouldn't use a screw that is longer than the thickness of the wall!

    Good point about galvanised i/o stainless.

    The stuff I am replacing seems to be push and fit AND bonded too.

    I suppose I could loose push fit it and go back and bond it if need be?
    Last edited by Finless; 24-07-2019 at 11:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finless View Post
    Thanks to some local yoofs I have to replace a broken downpipe from the gutter to the floor and I am uncertain as to some points concerning the repair.

    1. The existing joints on the downpipe have been bonded and I can't get anything to come apart without cutting. Is bonding necessary when I repair it?Downpipes should not be bonded - it is only really required for soil drainage to prevent smells.

    2. I think that I have read that I need to leave some room for expansion of the pipe? How does that work if the joints are all bonded? Having said that, the pipe does not go into a drain so I suppose the bottom of the pipe could be left an inch short of the floor?It is good practise to allow for expansion (hence the unbonded nature). Leaving it an inch above the floor should be fine but it is unlikely to move that much.

    3. This is the real killer for me (there is a huge hole in my knowledge) but I don't know what wall fixings to use. The wall is rendered breeze block and what size/type/rawl plugs/screws should I use for the pipe clips and what size drill bit compared to the rawl plug?My standard "go to" for anything like this is a red plug with a No8 screw (approx 4mm dia) - screw to have sufficient length to have 1-1.5" grip within the blockwork (total length should be thickness of bracket + thickness of render + 1-1.5"). The hole (5mm for red plugs) should be drilled to a sufficient depth to allow for the plug to be inserted within the blockwork with the 1-1.5" depth within the blockwork. The fault most people make is to leave the plug flush with the surface of the render which means that the plug is expanding against the render and not the blockwork. Render should be treated as a decorative surface and not for load bearing.

    The reality is that the screw/plug are only taking the weight of the downpipe in this case so it is not hugely critical - they are mainly locating the bracket not carrying a great weight.


    As ever, thanks in advance for all replies and advice.
    Comments in red.

  5. #5
    Established TDF Member Finless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    Comments in red.
    Well, I got it done ...... did ...... didded ....... finished but I'm not happy with the fixings. Unfortunately, we get kids wanting to climb the downpipe or just to try and pull it off the wall.

    I had some 1" screws in a bag with rawl plugs and used those but they semed a bit skinny so I went and bought a box of 2" screws and got exactly the same diameter as the skinny ones I already had. I think I should have made a note of what you advised and taken it with me .

    Whoever put it up in the first place went straight down from the gutter (no angle bends at the top) to the floor and, over time (I assume) all the clips came off (or maybe they never put any on). I've put 2 bends at the top so that the downpipe now decends parallel'ish to the wall and the bends mean I don't need as much downpipe as before and I was able to cut out the bonded bits from the old pieces of downpipe and still have enough downpipe to make the distance. Or, to put it another way, I didn't need to buy 2.5 mtr piece of downpipe that I did.

    Perhaps it won't fall off, afterall?

    You would think that DIY places would give more info about what fixings you need. Even my DIY manual said "use the appropriate fixings"! FFS, what use is that? I went to Screwfix AND Toolstation and didn't have a Scooby on what to get.
    Last edited by Finless; 24-07-2019 at 04:36 PM.

  6. #6
    Hail the Children of LLyr
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    On the other hand, the more secure it is, the easier it is to climb .........
    "...are we human, or are we diver?"

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    Confused? You will be. Jay_Benson's Avatar
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    As it seems to be the done thing for young males of a certain breeding to ignore pockets and to have their hands down the front of the joggers may I suggest smearing Deep Heat on the back of the downpipe?
    For information to help you plan your dive trip in the UK and Eire try www.planyourdivetrip.co.uk

    Public transport planning info at www.traveline.info

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    Established TDF Member Nickpicks's Avatar
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    If you have problems with people trying to climb it, you could coat it with anti-climb paint (above shoulder height so passers by don't get it on their clothes)

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/blackfria...ack-1ltr/5810p
    The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.

  9. #9
    Hail the Children of LLyr
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    Or mix any old paint with some waste oil or grease. Paint on pipes above head height.
    "...are we human, or are we diver?"

  10. #10
    Formerly sbc23cam Steve Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finless View Post
    You would think that DIY places would give more info about what fixings you need. Even my DIY manual said "use the appropriate fixings"! FFS, what use is that? I went to Screwfix AND Toolstation and didn't have a Scooby on what to get.
    It's a liability thing, but also an experience thing. With plugs & screws it does vary quite a lot with the material you are fixing to. A red plug packet will say drill 6mm hole and use No. 8/10 screw (4/5mm). In reality, that will be fine in a dense block or brick, but anything softer you will be better with a 5 or 5.5mm hole. Also, some modern woodscrews are designed to cut their own pilot hole when used in timber. A plug works because the screw forces open the plastic to grip the sides of the hole. Cutter screws just cut their own hole in the plastic and it doesn't expand properly.

    Plugs & screws are gradually being replaced by direct-fixing concrete screws. You drill a hole and they cut their own thread in the wall like a corkscrew. They don't rely on expansion and can be safely used near the edge of a block.


 
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