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  1. #1
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    Difference between PADI and BSAC Grades

    We have a number of new members joining our BSAC club who are PADI trained at OW/AOW and RD levels and I am trying to determine what specific skills are taught by PADI at each level so that we can fill in any gaps. I can't find any specific information on the content of the PADI courses - it's all fairly general stuff. Does anyone know of a source for this?

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    Gone diving back later Vanny's Avatar
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    There’s this ; https://www.bsac.com/document/bsac-e...ency-chart.pdf

    Expect you might have found that. Otherwise , nitrox if they haven’t done specialty , likewise rescue , dsmb , drysuit, navigation.

    If they want to crossover , cos we know they don’t have to, I find their quite receptive to a run through of ocean / sports theory to introduce / refresh / intro BSAC terminology and then pool / open water on the practical skills. Obviously with a cross over pack.

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    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Why not have a look at the PADI instructor manual to get the full data on what is taught and what the standards are?

    You can find plenty of them online if you look and buy old copies on eBay for a few quid. Strictly (IIRC) you should be a DM to have one but PADi seem pretty relaxed about it as long as the copyright is not infringed.

    My search hit one here: https://issuu.com/fabiobranky/docs/p...l-2010-english

    Been a (long) while but AFAIK the standards have not altered much over the years - certainly not enough to bother what you are trying to achieve.

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    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Use SALT for the paperwork, but selling or explaining it can be more difficult especailly if they've alraedy
    done loads of dives.

    PADi OW is pretty much identical to BSAC Ocean with the exception of CBL which is not done until RD.
    PADI AOW is better to be seen as more OW. Again no CBL, but unlike Sport Diver is non-deco.

    Despite having a deep dive this can be done as shallow as 19m and has none of the skills inclusive in Sport.
    Can have Drysuit, Nitrox, Multi-level, DSMB PADI specialties wrapped up in the AOW course which can
    make it better, but chances are it's warm water and electives are such as recognising pretty fish

    Hence why OW/AOW = Start Sport diver.

    PADI Rescue is a can of worms. Despite it being one of the best courses PADI do, it's not a diver course as such,
    but a rescue course. That means while it's got all the Rescue of Sport Diver and parts of things like PRM out of
    Dive Leader, it's not got any actual diver training.

    a) So as a very common example. PADI rescue trained in warm-water has no Drysuit, SMB, DSMB, Nitrox, Line Laying
    Deco theory , simulated dives, deco gas planning or redundancy theory training. They can also still be at 19m.

    b) On the other hand a PADI Rescue diver could have done lhundreds of dives in the UK on Nitrox, using a DSMB and
    apart from a bit of theory can easily start on Dive Leader.

    Despite SALT saying otherwise i'd advise a) to just do BSAC Sport Diver. If they are good they'll fly through it, if poor
    that choice is proven. I've never yet had any diver complain about starting lower when the holes in any existing
    training are poimted out.
    Thise in b) on the other hand i'd have no probs with them starting DL and just fill in the odd gap whilst on the
    course doing the standard DL stuff

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    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Why not have a look at the PADI instructor manual to get the full data on what is taught and what the standards are?

    You can find plenty of them online if you look and buy old copies on eBay for a few quid. Strictly (IIRC) you should be a DM to have one but PADi seem pretty relaxed about it as long as the copyright is not infringed.

    My search hit one here: https://issuu.com/fabiobranky/docs/p...l-2010-english

    Been a (long) while but AFAIK the standards have not altered much over the years - certainly not enough to bother what you are trying to achieve.

    In principal yes, i use a PADI IM all the time to check stuff

    These are all fairly recent my PADI one is 2018, old ones though (especially ones nearly a decade old)
    are not a great idea as elements are added or dropped all the time and if any wrong ideas get passed
    around the club ...................

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    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    In principal yes, i use a PADI IM all the time to check stuff

    These are all fairly recent my PADI one is 2018, old ones though (especially ones nearly a decade old)
    are not a great idea as elements are added or dropped all the time and if any wrong ideas get passed
    around the club ...................
    But an old manual tells you what a person might have done if they were trained nearer to the date. Maybe I misunderstood Allan's objective but I thought he is looking to see what "holes" to patch to achieve a well trained diver ready to move onwards and upwards. Your example of the difference between a UK trained and experienced diver and someone with 50 dives in the Red Sea and a RD ticket is a case in point.

    Unless you are a PADI Pro you are unlikely to know what has gone in or come out or when those changes happened. So an old IM is a rough guide to what are the basics and should (if I have got the right idea of the objective) enough to debate what additional modules might help. For sure if a newer version is available go for it - the one I found was just the first hit.

    If 'wrong' ideas are passed round a club, well that is the club surely? Understanding that standards change is not a PhD level comprehension.

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    Are all divers wanting to join a BSAC club expected to do BSAC courses? This obviously OK and reasonable at the novice levels, but for a more experienced person?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Are all divers wanting to join a BSAC club expected to do BSAC courses? This obviously OK and reasonable at the novice levels, but for a more experienced person?
    No.

    There is an equivalence chart

    https://www.bsac.com/document/bsac-equivalency-chart/

    Qualified divers can dive within BSAC according to the equivalency without completing any other courses.

    If they want to progress training within BSAC they can start at the next level course.

  9. #9
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    But an old manual tells you what a person might have done if they were trained nearer to the date. Maybe I misunderstood Allan's objective but I thought he is looking to see what "holes" to patch to achieve a well trained diver ready to move onwards and upwards. Your example of the difference between a UK trained and experienced diver and someone with 50 dives in the Red Sea and a RD ticket is a case in point.

    Unless you are a PADI Pro you are unlikely to know what has gone in or come out or when those changes happened. So an old IM is a rough guide to what are the basics and should (if I have got the right idea of the objective) enough to debate what additional modules might help. For sure if a newer version is available go for it - the one I found was just the first hit.

    If 'wrong' ideas are passed round a club, well that is the club surely? Understanding that standards change is not a PhD level comprehension.

    The basis of SALT is to compare the latest and current standard of the agencies it lists to create an equivilent
    to the latest and current BSAC and thus enable the crossover diver to continue on the latest and current BSAC path.

    The default therefore has to be the latest and current standard of both.

    Going back though as you say this may and has changed, but the varibles on that path are so vast how far back do you
    go? My PADI AOW standard (not a deep specialty) was 40m and I could use the IM that said all that was Ok as a
    a reference, but that's so out of date with the latest, where it's 30m or can now be done at 19m, not sure how
    that's going to help anyone.

    In my club we use our PADI/BSAC Instructors, so the first checkouts in the pool etc is a standard PADI (not BSAC)
    review using the current PADI syllabus. This highlights any holes on the PADI side and finds out if they are telling
    porkies as they can't play the BSAC is different card. Any holes can then be filled in when we change hats to BSAC
    on the next session.

    If a club does not have any PADI/BSAC Instructors it's still the same just use the current PADI syllabus and treat same
    as if it was an old school BSAC Sport Diver who had done Buddy Breathing. New BSAC Instructors don't use BSAC manuals
    from 10 years ago so why do that with PADI ones?

  10. #10
    Established TDF Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John63 View Post
    No.

    There is an equivalence chart

    https://www.bsac.com/document/bsac-equivalency-chart/

    Qualified divers can dive within BSAC according to the equivalency without completing any other courses.

    If they want to progress training within BSAC they can start at the next level course.
    which is a bit of a flaw in the plan when it comes to assuming that bsac members have all done the same training. A common progression I see is people join a club as AOW, then do some diving, watch what others are doing then want to do accellerated deco. They can't be arsed with SD or DL or AD because it takes too long and requires some actual training and effort and they may be asked to take in a trainee so they get a rebreather and do MOD1 MOD2 MOD 3 somewhere warm with good vis. instant dive god with no rescue, seamanship, dive management or rescue management skills.

    as a way of training self reliant divers who can look after each other in challenging diving conditions it's a shit system.


 
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