The UK rental market is shit!

[Mark Chase]

Illegal.

No it isn't

Thanks John63

Mark Chase
Accredited Landlord number 180298161 Kent Landlords Asociation
MD CTS Lettings & Property Management Ltd

[Mikael]

Mark you have swung from one example (bad landlords) all the way to another (bad tenants). Most landlords and tenants are probly a bit "meh".

I am no ace but I definitely made efforts to ventilate the flat and used sensible levels of heating prior to the mould making an appearance. I. Not asking landlords to "tenant proof" property but I want it maintained so under normal and reasonable use it should be largely problem free. Landlord does their bit, I do mine.

As for the mould, it appears I used the wrong terminology. When I get the chance I will explain more clearly and hopefully it will make more sense then.

[Chrisch]

No it isn’t but there is a specific procedure to be followed and tenant has to provide landlord notice, estimates and time to carry out repairs.

Here you go;



Procedure that must be followed

If a landlord has clearly breached a repairing obligation, tenants have the right under common law to do the repair themselves and deduct the costs and expenses of doing so from future rent payments. However, the correct procedure must be followed and adequate notice and estimates of costs must be submitted to the landlord in advance of the work being done so that s/he has the opportunity to do the works her/himself.....

Yes it is if you do not give the landlord that opportunity. If they are a bad landlord they will fail to undertake the repairs, so you have to go round the system a few times and will almost certainly be evicted.

The fact is that the average tenant is hugely disadvantaged by many factors. Often they lack the confidence to demand their rights. having experienced a few bad landlords they learn very very quickly to keep their mouth shut about everything. then they are the tenant that doesn't report the fault and so the more honest landlords that would do something about it moan that the tenant didn't mention the fault. Both sides only want to see their point of view and it is always the other side that is wrong, even though in reality if often isn't.

What was needed long ago and still is is to scrap the AST and for much more strict regulation of the private rental sector. Those people that wish to invest in that property class would be able to do so and have a long term income stream which can be a good thing if you are using that to fund your life without earned income (for example retirement). The house price inflation that took place over the last 20 odd years gave rise to people who were not interested in the revenue stream but only focussed on capital growth. As a broadbrush statement they are the problem. They see the tenants as nothing more than idiots that pay the mortgage as opposed to customers. A good tenant is a good customer who will give you that long term revenue stream.

Go back and read your list of how to get the repair done. "Reasonable time for the landlord to do the work". How many broken promises is that? The word "reasonable" is the problem of all legal action. Then pay for it themselves - what if it is a couple of grand? Get estimates. So the tenant hasn't got anything better to do and no job to go to and can afford to wait in and have a day off while three contractors come on different days?

This is the problem - seeing it from the other side. Yes technically there is a method of redress but it is bullshit and virtually no one is going to do it. Much easier to say nothing and just move out to somewhere better. The next tenant does the same. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. From the landlord's view it is a nuisance as s/he is always paying agency fees for new tenants and the faults keep not getting reported (maybe, just maybe the agents are not passing on the complaints too??)

All the good landlords that I know want more regulation to get the bad ones out the game. But the world seems anti-regulation so I don't suppose it will happen and we are where we are and look like staying there.

[Mark Chase]

Yes it is if you do not give the landlord that opportunity. If they are a bad landlord they will fail to undertake the repairs, so you have to go round the system a few times and will almost certainly be evicted.

The fact is that the average tenant is hugely disadvantaged by many factors. Often they lack the confidence to demand their rights. having experienced a few bad landlords they learn very very quickly to keep their mouth shut about everything. then they are the tenant that doesn't report the fault and so the more honest landlords that would do something about it moan that the tenant didn't mention the fault. Both sides only want to see their point of view and it is always the other side that is wrong, even though in reality if often isn't.

What was needed long ago and still is is to scrap the AST and for much more strict regulation of the private rental sector. Those people that wish to invest in that property class would be able to do so and have a long term income stream which can be a good thing if you are using that to fund your life without earned income (for example retirement). The house price inflation that took place over the last 20 odd years gave rise to people who were not interested in the revenue stream but only focussed on capital growth. As a broadbrush statement they are the problem. They see the tenants as nothing more than idiots that pay the mortgage as opposed to customers. A good tenant is a good customer who will give you that long term revenue stream.

Go back and read your list of how to get the repair done. "Reasonable time for the landlord to do the work". How many broken promises is that? The word "reasonable" is the problem of all legal action. Then pay for it themselves - what if it is a couple of grand? Get estimates. So the tenant hasn't got anything better to do and no job to go to and can afford to wait in and have a day off while three contractors come on different days?

This is the problem - seeing it from the other side. Yes technically there is a method of redress but it is bullshit and virtually no one is going to do it. Much easier to say nothing and just move out to somewhere better. The next tenant does the same. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. From the landlord's view it is a nuisance as s/he is always paying agency fees for new tenants and the faults keep not getting reported (maybe, just maybe the agents are not passing on the complaints too??)

All the good landlords that I know want more regulation to get the bad ones out the game. But the world seems anti-regulation so I don't suppose it will happen and we are where we are and look like staying there.

Both constructive eviction and malicious eviction are illegal under UK law.

Every tenant has to be provided with the latest government guidelines "How to rent guide 2018" which outlines their legal position and the ways they can defend their situation.

Failure to provide the tenant with this information will prevent the landlord using a Section 21 notice for eviction just as surely as failure to supply a gas certificate will.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-rent

"reasnoible time" is a variable

So for example a failed boiler would be 48 hours but if the plumber inspects and says you need a new boiler and he cant do the job for another two weeks, The landlord can claim that's reasonable. However he may be required to move the tenant to alternative housing or provide temporary heating and hot water


A damp patch on the wall is not urgent so 3 months could be considered reasonable as long as quotes have been obtained and works booked in.


A land lord will always be at a disadvantage in front of a judge. So when the tenant suggests shes waited six months for a repair and was then told he/she had to vacate the property and it was suspected this was because they were a nuisance tenant, the judge is likely to apply a compulsory works order, slap the landlord with a big fine and reinstate the tenant.


I had a call Easter Friday from a tenant saying his toilet was overflowing and the bath backing up with sewage.

I had no choice but to get a drainage company out on a bank holiday and get it sorted as an emergency call out.

[Chrisch]

Both constructive eviction and malicious eviction are illegal under UK law.

Every tenant has to be provided with the latest government guidelines "How to rent guide 2018" which outlines their legal position and the ways they can defend their situation.

Failure to provide the tenant with this information will prevent the landlord using a Section 21 notice for eviction just as surely as failure to supply a gas certificate will.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-rent

How come the experience is still so shit for so many people?

[Mark Chase]

Mark you have swung from one example (bad landlords) all the way to another (bad tenants). Most landlords and tenants are probly a bit "meh".

I am no ace but I definitely made efforts to ventilate the flat and used sensible levels of heating prior to the mould making an appearance. I. Not asking landlords to "tenant proof" property but I want it maintained so under normal and reasonable use it should be largely problem free. Landlord does their bit, I do mine.

As for the mould, it appears I used the wrong terminology. When I get the chance I will explain more clearly and hopefully it will make more sense then.

People often do research when buying a car to find one with few problems and long history's of reliability. You also chose a need specific one in the colour of your choice.

People buy and rent property based on location and affordability. Hence they end up with dogs often


The point your missing is mould is not the result of a break down or failure in the fabric of the building. Theres nothing to "fix" unless an extractor fan is broken or air bricks have been blocked up

Its a problem inherent in all properties designed and built up until the mid 00's what your asking for is an upgrade.

Its a lot worse in properties which were designed with ventilation from open fire places which are blocked up and or removed and where sash, crittle or casement windows are replaced with hermaticly sealed double glazing.


Cavity walls were designed to prevent penetrating damp

Later they were insulated to help with condensation

Later still the 50mm cavity was increased to 75mm and insulation installed

Later still that insulation was side fixed and the cavity upped to 100mm

All to combat heat loss and condensation.

Buying or renting an old house and moaning it has condensation issues is like buying an old car and moaning it doesent have Bluetooth connection for your phone.



In most properties the problem can be managed with heating and ventilation but the heating must be background temp of 20c at all times with boost during periods of occupancy and the ventilation must be fixed (no trickle vents that are closed by the tenant)

Opening windows is not efficient, and not secure (even on a half latch)

Insulated air bricks are preferable to standard air bricks (Note pic above with heavy mould around the vent)

When mould becomes noticeable it MUST be managed with antimould products before the expediential growth results in a bigger problem

Air space must be left behind objects on all external walls.

Most responsible tenants and home owners do this once they understand the issues ut even then SOME properties (basement flats etc) are just impossible to fix.


Then you need to spend significant money to sort it out.

Walls need to be lined with Thermal board, positive pressure fans installed passi vents fitted and antimould paint throughout. 20K should cover it

Thermal board on one of my flats

20181217_090359 by markchase8, on Flickr


SO you hit the landlord with a 20K bill and guess what? the retired couple who baught the flat to let out as a top up to their pension, don't have 20K


Remember 85% of privately let properties are owned by single property non professional land lords

Caviet Emptor. Be careful what you buy or rent

Ensure the property has agreed repair periods of essential and non essential repairs, ensure older properties have had measures installed to prevent condensation. Ask to speak to the previous tenant, check for mould in key areas like toilets kitchens and bathrooms and around the windows. Be cautious of recently redecorated walls in those areas. Pay for a pre rental inspection by a qualified surveyor like me and expect issues in older properties.

[Mikael]

So all UK properties built up till the mid 00s are shit?

Other than the extractor fan in the bathroom and above the hob my only option in the last property to ventilate was to open windows.

What else could I do?

And yes I treated mould when I saw it.

[UnCheeky Monkey]

Water certainly can penetrate across a cavity. Poorly installed ties, debris, mortar snots, cavity wall insulation - all of these can have this effect.

[Chrisch]

I have owned and rented a number of properties over the years and never had mould issues in one I owned. I am sure Mark is correct in his technical analysis - we rented a flat in Haywards Heath which had problems in the building and was being addressed by the managing agents of the building but some of the lessees were unwilling to pay out. I hate to think how much people were being ripped off. The stairwell had green on it that had been painted over. The leaseholders were nice people we met them, his job had taken him overseas for 4 years and they intended to live in the flat on their return. The letting agent was utter scum and lied about everything.

That is the only time I have ever come across a damp/mould issue in anything other than rented out stuff, I guess again Mark is correct and the issue is addressed if the person who pays the mortgage has to put up with it.

The problem is that often the property has been redecorated and the mould is not apparent until too late. You have signed the AST and are stuck with it for fixed period. Once again I see the problem as the AST. If you could just up and leave the landlord would have to fix it but as you have to pay the rent and put up with the shit until the AST runs out why bother? Just redecorate and blame the tenant and pocket the deposit as they "left it in a state".

A good landlord, a good letting agent and a good property are no problem at all. Chances of getting all three at the same time is slight. Letting agents are generally useless, the Haywards Heath one charged us 200 odd quid for a credit check then couldn't get one as we had just arrived from France. They accepted my bank statements (which showed we could buy the flat cash outright if we wanted). Still took the 200 quid though. The leaseholders we a bit naive and trusted the agents. If we hadn't met them before they went to their new job we would have had a different opinion. The tap dripped and the agent got the plumber to change the washer (I didn't know you could still buy them) he made a pigs ear of it and we had him back again. I offered to buy a tap if he fitted it but I guess they couldn't rip off the landlord then with spurious "repair bills".

I agree with Mike, renting in the UK is shit.

[Mikael]

Ensure the property has agreed repair periods of essential and non essential repairs, ensure older properties have had measures installed to prevent condensation.

Please elaborate on this bit, in particular the installed measures.

As for the mould I experienced in the previous property I will try to give short (condensed if you will) explanation.

I moved in, in September and first issues started around Christmas time. This coincided with increased rainfall and cold weather that winter brings.
This was the top floor flat. Mould appeared first in one specific location where the old fire places used to be. Where it appeared you could see the water beading up and it was wet to touch. All other wall surfaces were free from any detectable condensation or moisture. Speaking to the landlord, he said that a piece of lagging was missing from the chimney on the outside and this was how water was getting into the wall cavity. About a month later and well into the period of raininess mould was found on the reciprocal location on the other side of the property again where an old fire placed used to be. In addition to the mould on the second wall, wall paper around that area was damp to the touch in specific patches.

This is what led me to think we suffering penetrating damp.

Unless of course the wall cavity just in these locations was significantly colder due to difference in construction meant that condensation formed only here?

I have lived in other rented properties that pre-dated the 00s and never had mould issues before.

I don't think I am asking for bluetooth.

[graham_hk]

...

[F.P.]

I've been a landlord for forty years, through registered and AST tenancies. Never have been told I am/was a bad landlord and present tenants couldn't be happier.
Like many landlords most of the rent goes on maintenance (even more so since the tax changes), professional fees and tax. There has been many changes to the law in recent times which has increased all landlords costs.

I know the rent I take is around 25% less than the area average, not unhappy but then I did have a failing agent. Tenants are happy with what they pay but will have a shock if or when circumstances change (either theirs or mine). If I increase the rent then I'll just pay more tax.

Have made the decision that when the present tenants leave I'll sell up. The increasing hassle and costs just don't make it worthwhile.
Expect this years 'profit' to just about cover the dive club dinner cost for wife and i...

[Spirit of Guernsey]

Things are only going to get tougher for rental tenants. Your government policies have backfired, with lots of landlords quitting so a looming shortage of good rental properties and rising rents.

[Mikael]

Been in my new property less than a week and the toilet plumbing is already start to cause a problem

Fuckin shitty fucking cowbow bloody work they did on that job!

[Jay_Benson]

Been in my new property less than a week and the toilet plumbing is already start to cause a problem

Fuckin shitty fucking cowbow bloody work they did on that job!

Now before Chris and Mark chime in - in less than a week you have managed to block the system up? Have you considered more roughage? ��