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  1. #41
    TDF Member Moleshome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    ... much better than trying to monitor your computer when doing a CBL with both hands full and watching the victim.
    I'm a recently qualified sport diver so no expert but from my point of view, my left hand has got a good grip on the victim's BCD strap, my computer is on my right wrist where I can see it whilst operating the victim's inflator. Watching the victim is a secondary if not tertiary activity, I can do nothing for them underwater, the priority is to get them to the surface.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleshome View Post
    I'm a recently qualified sport diver so no expert but from my point of view, my left hand has got a good grip on the victim's BCD strap, my computer is on my right wrist where I can see it whilst operating the victim's inflator. Watching the victim is a secondary if not tertiary activity, I can do nothing for them underwater, the priority is to get them to the surface.
    I would disagree watching the person is important. Twice I have carried out CBL's both times the diver was breathing just unresponsive in poor visibility I decided to lift rather than mess about on the bottom both of them came around after going up maybe 5 meters. By looking at their faces I could see they were safe to be released. If they had stopped breathing then the rate of ascent would have been increased drastically. I do not need to look at a computer to judge my speed.

    Graham

  3. #43
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleshome View Post
    I'm a recently qualified sport diver so no expert but from my point of view, my left hand has got a good grip on the victim's BCD strap, my computer is on my right wrist where I can see it whilst operating the victim's inflator. Watching the victim is a secondary if not tertiary activity, I can do nothing for them underwater, the priority is to get them to the surface.
    It's the other way around

    Need to think what's the value of looking at computer = ascent rate vs looking at casualty = monitoring response (BTW it's a casualty, not a victim).

    Your casualty by virtue of needing a CBL may be unconscious or just incapacitated. If it's the former what if they become conscious on the way up?
    Far fetched? Well this may seem unlikely, but plenty of other agencies lift from the rear citing danger from a panicked diver, so it is seen as a very real
    possibility.

    Even if it's an incapacitated casualty the realisation of the situation they are in can bring on a panic attack and may need corrective measures by the rescuer.

    Any diver even one not schooled in CBL understands an assisted ascent, so having someone face to face in control even after the initial shock is
    very reassuring. Panic/unhappy divers don't want to make decisions, they crave someone else to take control.

    So now you've got the reassurance of that direct face to face contact and someone else being in control heading to the surface. Computer on the inside left
    or right arm can be read with a momentary glance down without even turning the head + don't forget it also has ascent alarms. Focus on the casualty and
    just glance down to check ascent rate/depth.


    Or if you want another slant on it You own the computer and you can practice and drill CBL's, can even drill them without a computer to gauge an ascent
    by feel/bubbles etc, so the skillbase for all this is well within your control. The variable though in this case is the casualty, you don't know what you'll get
    be it an unconscious lump or a seriously dangerous panicking psycho. Much better to be skilled in the known's so we can free up our capacity to deal with
    the unknowns

  4. #44
    Established TDF Member Steve C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    I would disagree watching the person is important. Twice I have carried out CBL's both times the diver was breathing just unresponsive in poor visibility I decided to lift rather than mess about on the bottom both of them came around after going up maybe 5 meters. By looking at their faces I could see they were safe to be released. If they had stopped breathing then the rate of ascent would have been increased drastically. I do not need to look at a computer to judge my speed.

    Graham
    Totally agree! Face to face and watch the eyes... two real CBLs in 35 years ... neither unconscious but incapacitated and unable to manage their bouyancy adequately. Once control of situation was apparent to them the size of eyeballs in their mask reduced dramatically. I followed speed of small bubbles in both cases.. first was well before computer .. no alarms on a analog depth gauge!

    One thing I used to emphasis when teaching CBL in the past was dont piss about on the bottom. Try to dump any air on your own wing or BCD as you approach then get a firm grip the start inflating the casualty’s BCD and DONT STOP inflating until you are both moving .. then control ascent by dumping air and flaring fins. If either of you have a drysuit then try to remember to wind them fully open first too. Too often there was a lot of fannying about on bottom .. two squirts of air, wait, 2 more squirts, wait etc.. Keep inflating till you are both as ending helps avoid this.

  5. #45
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
    One thing I used to emphasis when teaching CBL in the past was dont piss about on the bottom. Try to dump any air on your own wing or BCD as you approach then get a firm grip the start inflating the casualty’s BCD and DONT STOP inflating until you are both moving .. then control ascent by dumping air and flaring fins. If either of you have a drysuit then try to remember to wind them fully open first too. Too often there was a lot of fannying about on bottom .. two squirts of air, wait, 2 more squirts, wait etc.. Keep inflating till you are both as ending helps avoid this.

    Ooo no don't like that, don't piss about true, but don't like whacking a load of gas in.

    Dump own gas, get in the propose position with casualty and push off from the bottom, then start fining.
    Natural expansion takes over at about 2m and chances are if they are weighted right won't need to add
    much, but if not, just add a squirt or two. By the time that's done they'll be at 4m+ and it's all expanding again.
    This method is actually faster than using BC alone and a lot safer.

    Drysuit gets taken care of by placing the casualties left hand on the rescuers shoulder and rescuer goes over
    the top onto the inflator keeping arm in place. This means a cuff or shoulder dump is both at the highest point
    and any venting can be easily seen or dealt with.

  6. #46
    Established TDF Member Steve C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel View Post
    Ooo no don't like that, don't piss about true, but don't like whacking a load of gas in.

    Dump own gas, get in the propose position with casualty and push off from the bottom, then start fining.
    Natural expansion takes over at about 2m and chances are if they are weighted right won't need to add
    much, but if not, just add a squirt or two. By the time that's done they'll be at 4m+ and it's all expanding again.
    This method is actually faster than using BC alone and a lot safer.

    Drysuit gets taken care of by placing the casualties left hand on the rescuers shoulder and rescuer goes over
    the top onto the inflator keeping arm in place. This means a cuff or shoulder dump is both at the highest point
    and any venting can be easily seen or dealt with.
    Good call on the drysuit but lots has to be right with your method of lifting for it to work or you find yourself finning hard and going nowhere .. and in limited vis perhaps not even realising. I preferred to know there is a positive ascent ... however I am not an active instructor so very possibly out of date with the current thinking. At the end of the day if shit happens what works works!

  7. #47
    Established TDF Member Tel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
    Good call on the drysuit but lots has to be right with your method of lifting for it to work or you find yourself finning hard and going nowhere .. and in limited vis perhaps not even realising. I preferred to know there is a positive ascent ... however I am not an active instructor so very possibly out of date with the current thinking. At the end of the day if shit happens what works works!

    All basic skills responses are based on the statistically most common of scenarios as a default.
    Once that's established the skillset can be expanded to include much rarer and extreme scenarios.

    To use an extreme scenario as the default can both increase the risk in the more common benign
    environment and even in the act of training itself. It's also for this reason that a lot of older diving
    skills are no longer taught.


 
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