GUE CCR configuration

[NWdiver]

It also seems counter to the DIR KISS principle as you still need bailout which could simply be handed over to an OOG OC or CCR diver.

You've used the "DIR KISS" phrase in a couple of threads recently. Please define that.... I'm not sure you know what you mean yourself.

It's quite clear that the GUE CCR config has been created to allow seamless transitioning between OC and CCR as well as mixed teams. They are using it. It works. You're very kit focused. It seems to me that they've chosen this to ensure that protocols are standard. That's not something you'd learn whilst dabbling with fundies and I doubt something anyone would be bothered trying to explain online. (Mostly because it would be no use to anyone)

To critique it as an "outsider" misses the point entirely. If you tried to replicate it and then dive it on your standard outing, you'd probably hate it and look like a bit of a wannabee tit.

I've got my fundies badge proudly stitched on to my bath towel, next to the 25m swimming badge. BUT... I don't dive within a Gooey group of people. Therefore, the more traditional route was better for myself. As, I assume, it would be for you.

I very much look forward to you buying a CCR. This forum might be about to get much more exciting!

[JonG]

Does the GUE JJ allow for plugging in of offboard gas or did i miss that bit?

[Wibs]

You've used the "DIR KISS" phrase in a couple of threads recently. Please define that.... I'm not sure you know what you mean yourself.

It's quite clear that the GUE CCR config has been created to allow seamless transitioning between OC and CCR as well as mixed teams. They are using it. It works. You're very kit focused. It seems to me that they've chosen this to ensure that protocols are standard. That's not something you'd learn whilst dabbling with fundies and I doubt something anyone would be bothered trying to explain online. (Mostly because it would be no use to anyone)

To critique it as an "outsider" misses the point entirely. If you tried to replicate it and then dive it on your standard outing, you'd probably hate it and look like a bit of a wannabee tit.

I've got my fundies badge proudly stitched on to my bath towel, next to the 25m swimming badge. BUT... I don't dive within a Gooey group of people. Therefore, the more traditional route was better for myself. As, I assume, it would be for you.

I very much look forward to you buying a CCR. This forum might be about to get much more exciting!

That makes it very clear. It's not the kit, it's the protocols within those teams. Taking it out of context of those teams makes no sense, hence my confusion as I don't dive in those groups.

It's a limited use case that won't be used in, for example, cave exploration or dives pushing limits. Again, a confusion on my part as I was assuming that this CCR configuration would be general purpose like the DIR config.

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@JonG - keep up the good work of asking useful questions. You're an asset to this forum for many people struggling to cut through the fog of "expert" opinions.

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DIR KISS... now a moot point that one of the main principles of the "DIR" config is paring the kit down to the minimum, hence two regs, one gauge, etc.

[cathal]

Like everything GUE, it's not the best system for every possible dive. It's a system that's as close as possible to standard across as many types of dives as possible. That's the compromise. That's the advantage.

Its advantages are also its weakness. As a unit it is a compromise for every type of diving but its fair to say the primary design architecture is a cave orientated one. As Mark alluded to earlier for a weeks diving say of Malin, most of us would have a couple of different dil's pre-mixed for easy nights. About 2014 I dived regularly with a GUE JJ diver on the Rosguill and another issue not mentioned so far with the unit that he experienced was the extra weight of the unit, he had a lot of difficulty in heavy seas getting across the deck to either jump in or to get back to his spot on the bench. You can imagine what it was like for him half way up the lift when the boat would be hit broadside!! He ended up getting rid of the twin 7's and went back to 3L's for his spines sake. But again that was in open water, in a cave the unit would not have any of these issues.
The other issue that was raised back then was the fact you have to go off the loop to donate the long hose? I stand to be corrected if this is still the case, would love to hear the rationale behind it.
Finally, where your buddy is looking for bottom mix if they bail out, because of the back mounted bail out gas you are tied to them on their rather rapid ascent via your long hose as opposed to just handing them the tin.

Cathal

[Mark Chase]

no wider (much less) than LL RR on your hips which I think is what you dive...

B

The ll rr tanks are on p clips so can be brought in parallel to the body and you cant do that with a 3ltr clamped to the side of the unit

DSC_7919_zpsjyn5yvlh by markchase8, on Flickr

[NWdiver]

They're not adding extra 3's on the side. They're behind the 7s.

So it's no wider than the JJ running 7's... although that is quite wide

[Mark Chase]

Yes thanks I read that after so it makes sense now

I have my 1.0 ltr suit inflate similarly mounted

[Mark Chase]

WOW time flies

I apparently put together my GUE stile "dover rig" in March 2010?????

https://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105008

Four years before those sneaky lot at GUE copied my idea

That means I must have got the JJ in December 2009??? I cant believe I have had it 10 years.


It was most amusing reading the comments slagging the unit off, especially from the GUE divers who now dive this way

[MikeF]

Its advantages are also its weakness. As a unit it is a compromise for every type of diving but its fair to say the primary design architecture is a cave orientated one. As Mark alluded to earlier for a weeks diving say of Malin, most of us would have a couple of different dil's pre-mixed for easy nights. About 2014 I dived regularly with a GUE JJ diver on the Rosguill and another issue not mentioned so far with the unit that he experienced was the extra weight of the unit, he had a lot of difficulty in heavy seas getting across the deck to either jump in or to get back to his spot on the bench. You can imagine what it was like for him half way up the lift when the boat would be hit broadside!! He ended up getting rid of the twin 7's and went back to 3L's for his spines sake. But again that was in open water, in a cave the unit would not have any of these issues.

Cathal

I tried twin 7's and an offboard 3L of O2 on my alibox in pre GUE JJ days. I did one dive off the boat and said stuff that for the very reasons you quote. underwater it was fine but climbing a ladder or even standing up on a rolling boat was a nightmare.

[Mark Chase]

A comment on my manifolded 7s on the back of the JJ from Dave Thompson designer of the JJ CCR

well seeing as I am one of the worst kit fiddlers going I guess I shouldn't moan but that manifold is the dumbest thing I have seen in ages!!

[Mark Chase]

I tried twin 7's and an offboard 3L of O2 on my alibox in pre GUE JJ days. I did one dive off the boat and said stuff that for the very reasons you quote. underwater it was fine but climbing a ladder or even standing up on a rolling boat was a nightmare.

Yes thats why I binned the idea 9 years ago

TBH I also found the unit would role me if I leaned to one side or the other. Fine in flat trim but I was a bit of a wreck ferrit so I was often at odd angles trying to get inside stuff

[Steve Clark]

Its advantages are also its weakness. As a unit it is a compromise for every type of diving but its fair to say the primary design architecture is a cave orientated one. As Mark alluded to earlier for a weeks diving say of Malin, most of us would have a couple of different dil's pre-mixed for easy nights. About 2014 I dived regularly with a GUE JJ diver on the Rosguill and another issue not mentioned so far with the unit that he experienced was the extra weight of the unit, he had a lot of difficulty in heavy seas getting across the deck to either jump in or to get back to his spot on the bench. You can imagine what it was like for him half way up the lift when the boat would be hit broadside!! He ended up getting rid of the twin 7's and went back to 3L's for his spines sake. But again that was in open water, in a cave the unit would not have any of these issues.
The other issue that was raised back then was the fact you have to go off the loop to donate the long hose? I stand to be corrected if this is still the case, would love to hear the rationale behind it.
Finally, where your buddy is looking for bottom mix if they bail out, because of the back mounted bail out gas you are tied to them on their rather rapid ascent via your long hose as opposed to just handing them the tin.

Cathal

Yes, you do have to go on and off the loop to donate. It’s again about the standard response. Immediate problem with buddy - donate whatever is in your mouth. Obviously you can’t donate the loop on the JJ or RB80 so the clipped off long hose is next best. It will always be fine, except very shallow.

Beyond the initial response, the divers can sort out the best solution. This may well be handing over a bottle or fixing whatever the issue was. It would be a bad day in a cave if you were relying on the long hose to get out a long way. It is however a great tool for an instant and safe fix to a cluster fuck.

GUE never just donate a reg off a clipped off stage bottle. There’s a fixed procedure for identifying & switching gas and it has killed people when it has been ignored in the past. It’s too slow for rapid donation.

You are right about the roots being in the cave environment. The GUE JJ CCR is heavy, but it does work in the sea. A standard 3L dil setup & no long hose in a cave is a totally different approach to GUE. Personal vs team solution. Both are valid.

[Steve Clark]

As for Mark’s comments about logistics, from what I’ve seen the GUE JJ CCR works fine. Just drive it with 15/55 for all wrecks up to 75m. Works fine at 20m if plans change and it’s not like you are going to use much out of 14L.

That doesn’t work on the RB80. You need the right gas for the dive to keep the ppo2 somewhere near optimal.

[graham_hk]

...

[Mark Chase]

That’s not true it was designed by Lundgren who is an ocean wreck diver.

As for heavier - maybe but it’s diveable in its base configuration unlike stock unit which needs a bailout. Add an 80 and lead and the stock is heavier and has no redundancy like the gue config.

I did 5h of bottom time in malin head over 5-days including a day the other boy didn’t go out. I only filled once (230b) and still had enough (170b) dil/bailout ((12/80) for an hour bt in channel. I didn’t struggle with weight or logistics once or have to rely on drop bottles as part of my bailout strategy.

Coffee is waiting In Bournemouth for anybody interested.

Just to be clear you were only using the "bailout" to get you to an intermediate gas.

You would need 50% + 100% bailouts to do the deco on an hours bottom time

I did an hour on the Audacious and that was only 60-65m and it was about 2.5-3 hours deco.
Even with my SAC on deco of around 10lpm I still needed 10ltrs 18/45 11ltrs 50% and 10ltrs 80% and they were all blown to 275bar

Your back gas in the two 7s would get you to 21m easy, but this assumes a non return to shot necessity or at best a not very far away from shot position and of course no nasty c02.

Unless of course your on teem bailout planning, but I dont take such risks.



The GUE JJ with two 7s on the back + a 3 of 02 WILL be a heavy unit. Not in the water of course but I bet you were glad when they got a lift on Loyal watcher