BSAC - New AS Proceedure?

[Tel]

Her buddy had seen her ascend but had stayed at 6m to do her 'essential' safety stop since she had been taught that a safety stop must never, ever be skipped regardless of the circumstances. She got the rough end of my tongue when she surfaced!

What!!!
You mean that someone was taught 'never' and it came back to bite them

[Allan Carr]

What!!!
You mean that someone was taught 'never' and it came back to bite them

Their buddy rather than them!

That's what worries me about the whole concept of the learning by rote/mimic me approach which seems to be the vogue these days because it is easier to teach that way. I've always adopted the approach of explaining and questioning the trainee as to why do they think it is done this way rather than just saying do it like this. Rote learning is fine as long as the real-life incident fits the pattern which has been practiced.

[Liquidity]

Their buddy rather than them!

That's what worries me about the whole concept of the learning by rote/mimic me approach which seems to be the vogue these days because it is easier to teach that way. I've always adopted the approach of explaining and questioning the trainee as to why do they think it is done this way rather than just saying do it like this. Rote learning is fine as long as the real-life incident fits the pattern which has been practiced.

Not sure I agree with that. Demo / mimic is not a fad, but a proven and natural way to learn.

I do agree that you need to explain the why as well, and to most that is blindingly obvious. But that's down to the quality of the instructor rather than the method of teaching. If your instructor isn't telling you why you're doing something, then time for a new instructor.

I tell my students why we're doing something, then demo it and then getting them to repeat.

Cheers

Andy W

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[Allan Carr]

I tell my students why we're doing something, then demo it and then getting them to repeat.

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Likewise but I'm afraid that although that should be blindingly obvious, it often doesn't seem to happen, especially with commercial operations where they are working to a tight deadline to complete the course. The emphasis is on 'this is what you do' rather than 'this is why you do it'

[Suspect Device]

Evening chaps and chappettes.

Just been prepping a lesson for tomorrow night and I've come across a weird yet thought provoking error in the training materials.

So this is to do with surface procedure after an AS ascent.

So on page 14 of OS3 it gives a written description of the current procedure. The recipient on surfacing is to inflate their own BC. Nothing new there and as taught.

However on the next line, it says the recipient should also continue to breath off the AS. Now this seems a little strange.

Why, when on the surface would we insist on breathing from the AS when the atmosphere is available and we're trying to inflate the BC as quickly as possible? Okay, if you're that negative you keep going face under, I get that. But it still seems a bit excessive to teach that.

Anyway, whilst you're all thinking about your responses to rip that statement to bits, take a little look at the picture in the bottom right hand of page 14.

Now... Who's inflating what there?

Now this might be an error, it's certainly not as described in the words above, but to me looks like a much better surface procedure. And here's why I think that.

First, as donor, I'm fully inflated and have good buoyancy. Second, I didn't nearly drown a few moments ago (in the scenario anyway) so I'm probably less panicked. Further, as the recepient always has the octo in their face, it doesn't matter if they end up face under while the donor sorts the inflation out.

I'm failing to see many downsides to this procedure over the one currently taught.

So, any thoughts or reason why this isn't the preferred method from other BSAC instructors?

I appreciate other agencies might teach differently and I don't want this turning into (another) BSAC bashing thread. And yes, I also know that diving /owning a rebreather solves all dive related woes! 

Cheers

Andy W

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I've just had a look at page 14. I'm reading:
"Recipient should continue to breath from AS until fully supported by own BC"

As for the picture of the donor inflating the recipients, its says that its for demo purposes, should the recipient be unable to help themselves.

Admittedly this is from a copy I downloaded in Aug 2017, so has it been changed since?

[Edward3c]

Admittedly this is from a copy I downloaded in Aug 2017, so has it been changed since?

The online documents are the latest versions, they are the only copies. I always download when preparing lessons, that way I don’t need to worry about getting the latest version.

[Suspect Device]

The online documents are the latest versions, they are the only copies. I always download when preparing lessons, that way I don’t need to worry about getting the latest version.

Sorry I was just being lazy (on nights at work) and looking at an older copy on my phone. Just downloaded the latest version, no change in text or photos on page 14 of OS3.