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  1. #11
    Established TDF Member Iain Smith's Avatar
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    Depth progression question.

    Quote Originally Posted by MPW1964 View Post
    Folks.

    Am thinking about next yearsí holidays at the moment, assuming that neither Armageddon nor my death get here first...(Although Iíd pay good money to see Death astride a fiery charger :devil😊

    Some of the places Iím contemplating are a shade deeper at 50-ish metres than my current qualifications, (PADI Rescue), so Iím wondering what to do about training for deeper diving. FWIW, I work away all week so weekends are precious, therefore I donít want to commit to a lot of weekends in a BSAC stylee, as it wouldnít be fair to my OH. Iím quite happy to do a couple of long weekendsí training, or maybe even a week, but not sure how best to proceed.
    IMO (for what itís worth) is that 50m is well into trimix territory. I have a handful of air dives in the 40-50m range and have no desire to increase that number.

    ďThe bestĒ training for this (ignoring the most critical factor, i.e. the instructor and how well you connect with them) (and possibly the fastest route) is GUE Fundamentals, then Tech 1. Thatís a four day course, then a five day course. Tech 1 qualifies you to 51m.

    PADIís route would be Tec-40, Tec-45 and Tec-50. I donít know how long these are, but I think you have to accumulate a certain number of dives between each step.

    Depending on your qualifications, skills and experience, IANTD offer Nitrox, Rec Trimix, then Adv Rec Trimix (which is a 48m qualification), with Normoxic Trimix ďqualifyingĒ you to 60m.

    The TDI route would be (depending on where your existing qualifications allow you to slot in): Nitrox/Adv Nitrox/Deco Procedures or Helitrox/Trimix

    There are other less-well known agencies, but the progression is broadly similar. So, some things to think about:

    Who do you anticipate doing these dives with? What are they qualified to do? If similar to yourself, are they going to put the time and effort in to get qualified with you? (If so, great, thatís the beginnings of a team there already!). Can whichever facility you intend to use supply Trimix? (If not, I suggest stopping right there and just not doing these dives).

    How comfortable are you the the idea of mandatory decompression? 15min @ 50m is going to be something like 21min of accelerated decompression stops (or 40min if your deco gas fails and you have to deco out on back gas).

    Are you going to keep doing these dives in the future? How frequently? Is it worth it for just this trip?

    What kit do you have? What will you have access to at your intended destination? If the answer to the latter does not include ďtwinsetsĒ then see above re: ďdonít do itĒ. If your kit is a single-tank recreational reg, youíre looking at the best part of £1k (possibly more) to add two (possibly three) sets of regs (depending on whether your existing regs can be sensibly reconfigured), backplate and wing.
    Last edited by Iain Smith; 24-09-2018 at 11:56 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPW1964 View Post
    Folks.

    Am thinking about next yearsí holidays at the moment, assuming that neither Armageddon nor my death get here first...(Although Iíd pay good money to see Death astride a fiery charger )

    Some of the places Iím contemplating are a shade deeper at 50-ish metres than my current qualifications, (PADI Rescue), so Iím wondering what to do about training for deeper diving. FWIW, I work away all week so weekends are precious, therefore I donít want to commit to a lot of weekends in a BSAC stylee, as it wouldnít be fair to my OH. Iím quite happy to do a couple of long weekendsí training, or maybe even a week, but not sure how best to proceed.


    Thoughts or advice appreciated.
    Although BSAC DL does give you 50m, my recommendation is Sports Mixed Gas. DL is more about Dive Management than deep diving.

  3. #13
    Established TDF Member matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain Smith View Post
    IMO (for what it’s worth) is that 50m is well into trimix territory. I have a handful of air dives in the 40-50m range and have no desire to increase that number.
    I agree with one caveat - if the diving is to be blue-water and he has hundreds of dives under his belt then really, you don't need gas for the 40-50m range.

    Bit different in the Clyde where I did mine, and no doubt your experience is similar, lol.

    Matt.

  4. #14
    Established TDF Member Iain Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward3c View Post
    Although BSAC DL does give you 50m, my recommendation is Sports Mixed Gas. DL is more about Dive Management than deep diving.
    (For ease of comparison with the other routes I listed, entry to BSAC SMG requires either Adv Nitrox or Accelerated Deco Procedures)

  5. #15
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    Thanks for all the replies, and apologies for not giving enough info. Just got started posting and seemingly half of Eastern Europe wanted me to back my Swedish leviathan into a nasty site in Acton. I do so love delivering to London...

    All my diving is UK based, most of it having taken place on the west coast of Scotland, just shy of 500 dives, quite a few of which have been between 30 and 40 metres. Re-reading my OP, and thinking about the advice so far, itís probably safer to say that Iím looking at the ďnext stepĒ from PADI AOW, in terms of depth. Iím not bound to PADI either, and donít really care who I train with, as long as itís quality training. Same goes for gear, Iím fully kitted out with loads of cylinders, itís my fetish, lol, donít mind what it costs, given that as a Yorkshireman it hurts to spend any amount of money
    Last edited by MPW1964; 24-09-2018 at 12:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MPW1964 View Post
    donít mind what it costs
    If you're going to dive with people in GUE circles then Fundies /Tech 1 is a good shout. If you don't move in those circles then it's probably not the best solution (although Fundies is never a bad thing to do).

    I'd avoid PADI for no other reason than it's too incremental for me, and it leaves out the helium until your at 50m, which is too late in my opinion.

    Leaves, TDI / IANTD etc. Find a well recommended instructor, do an ART or AN/He course and dive it to 45m. Then buy a rebreather.

  7. #17
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    The next stage from PADI is decompression training. If you are comfortable to 40m at present then you are ahead of the game and need to start things like gas planning and a bit more understanding of deco requirements.

    Any of the entry level "tech" courses will be a good start. Advanced Nitrox or Advanced Recreational Trimix (ART) give a good grounding. I would look at who is available locally rather than get bogged down in which agency to go for. Personally I like some helium beyond 40m and so I would suggest the ART course. It is good for 48m and a bit of deco. Deeper open circuit in expensive as helium is not cheap and you burn so much of it. I'm afraid a lot of people are going to suggest a rebreather at this point. That makes sense if you dive often enough but it's a bit like starting over.

    The missus and I did our ART in the Italian lakes. You learn a lot and it is a good and worthwhile thing. We were lucky and got a lot of help with using twin cylinders and so on. Again it is going to be down to the instructor or school and how much time they have and probably who else is on the course with you.

    Hopefully someone a bit nearer to you will have some suggestions on schools etc.

  8. #18
    Established TDF Member Iain Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWdiver View Post
    If you're going to dive with people in GUE circles then Fundies /Tech 1 is a good shout. If you don't move in those circles then it's probably not the best solution (although Fundies is never a bad thing to do).

    I'd avoid PADI for no other reason than it's too incremental for me, and it leaves out the helium until your at 50m, which is too late in my opinion.

    Leaves, TDI / IANTD etc. Find a well recommended instructor, do an ART or AN/He course and dive it to 45m. Then buy a rebreather.
    It is worth being aware that GUE donít accept anyone elseís qualifications for progression. If you think you might want to train with GUE, Fundies is where you want to start. That will give you a twin set + nitrox ticket (if not already held). A ďtech passĒ from Fundies is essentially the only route into Tech 1.

    Some have used GUE qualifications as a basis for further training with other agencies, however, I donít know if these are ďrecognisedĒ routes, or if instructors look at students on a case-by-case basis.

    (For context, my route was BSAC AD+Adv Nitrox, TDI Deco Procedures, TDI Trimix, GUE Fundamentals, GUE Tech 1. A decade and more later, Iíve not quite got round to doing Tech 2, though I stepped sideways to Cave 1 & 2 and might have done a few dives beyond Tech 1 limits (ahem) though most of these have been in caves).

  9. #19
    Established TDF Member matt's Avatar
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    From what you have said I would go with my favourite approach of choosing an instructor rather than a course and being guided by them.

    Mark Powell is on here, I would start with him. I would also trust he won't sell you something you don't want or need and if another instructor is a better fit he would say so.

    Cheers
    Matt.

    Quote Originally Posted by MPW1964 View Post
    Thanks for all the replies, and apologies for not giving enough info. Just got started posting and seemingly half of Eastern Europe wanted me to back my Swedish leviathan into a nasty site in Acton. I do so love delivering to London...

    All my diving is UK based, most of it having taken place on the west coast of Scotland, just shy of 500 dives, quite a few of which have been between 30 and 40 metres. Re-reading my OP, and thinking about the advice so far, it’s probably safer to say that I’m looking at the “next step” from PADI AOW, in terms of depth. I’m not bound to PADI either, and don’t really care who I train with, as long as it’s quality training. Same goes for gear, I’m fully kitted out with loads of cylinders, it’s my fetish, lol, don’t mind what it costs, given that as a Yorkshireman it hurts to spend any amount of money

  10. #20
    TDF Member DarrenA's Avatar
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    Contact Mark Powell or Ian France. Either of them will explain the options available and both will have you sorted out in a weekend or two at NDAC at Chepstow.

    If you are moving to twinset (I assume some kind of twins, indies, sidemount) then make sure the dive centre you choose to dive with abroad can accommodate you. A surprising number dont have any twinsets and dont do that kind of diving.

    Lastly, try and find (if you havent already) a buddy who wants to progress the same as you. It makes the post training diving much easier to organise.

    Have fun!


 
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