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  1. #21
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    Leaving the EU (not really a rant)...

    Quote Originally Posted by braun View Post
    Bollocks.
    Bigotry.
    Shit.
    BS.
    Crap.
    A sack of shit.
    Retards.

    All in just two posts. Good start
    Why would anyone dislike this post!! Seems to be merely stating a fact.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren A View Post
    Why would anyone dislike this post!! Seems to be merely stating a fact.
    Because he missed my Trumpingtonboriscuntyitous from post #3
    Last edited by ManualOverride; 31-08-2018 at 09:50 PM.

  3. #23
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    Genuine question not an attempt to antagonse any one. As we have told the EU we are leaving can we change our minds? Do the rules allow us to stay now?

    Graham.

  4. #24
    Self Defecating The Real Paulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    Genuine question not an attempt to antagonse any one. As we have told the EU we are leaving can we change our minds? Do the rules allow us to stay now?

    Graham.
    The rules can be made up on the hoof if necessary.
    If the UK formally asked to abandon the exit process (such as it is!) would be swept under the carpet.
    They want us to stay.

    However, it'll cost and be equally as painful as the nonbrexit on offer.
    My guess is that the EU will punish us in some way for our insolence and as a consequence they'll expect us to join the Euro, stop whinging and become good Europeans.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    Genuine question not an attempt to antagonse any one. As we have told the EU we are leaving can we change our minds? Do the rules allow us to stay now?

    Graham.
    Yes we can, it can be cancelled at any time before 11pm 29th March 2019.
    As a full member of the EU we will remain at the table and have full voting power so it will not be possible for the EU to punish us in any way, as we would have to be part of that decision process, and would obviously veto any attempt.
    We would still have had economic slowdown (in comparison to other EU countries) and several companies have already made their decisions to not invest or move completely out of the UK over the last year, so we would not be "back to normal" but it would be a lot better than any alternative.

  6. #26
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManualOverride View Post
    Yes we can, it can be cancelled at any time before 11pm 29th March 2019.
    As a full member of the EU we will remain at the table and have full voting power so it will not be possible for the EU to punish us in any way, as we would have to be part of that decision process, and would obviously veto any attempt.
    We would still have had economic slowdown (in comparison to other EU countries) and several companies have already made their decisions to not invest or move completely out of the UK over the last year, so we would not be "back to normal" but it would be a lot better than any alternative.
    This is it. There is nothing and penalty to stop us staying. Overall they would be very very happy to see us stay.
    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  7. #27
    Old but keen Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    I don’t know much of politics, other than democracy has failed, but for me, as a diver and marine biologist, a bankrupt fishing industry sounds like a positive to me.
    And don't let the tiny wincy little fact that the UK is still the biggest taker of fish stock in all EU waters get in the way of the argument.

  8. #28
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Paulus View Post
    The rules can be made up on the hoof if necessary.
    If the UK formally asked to abandon the exit process (such as it is!) would be swept under the carpet.
    They want us to stay.

    However, it'll cost and be equally as painful as the nonbrexit on offer.
    My guess is that the EU will punish us in some way for our insolence and as a consequence they'll expect us to join the Euro, stop whinging and become good Europeans.
    I think much of this is correct, however the cost can never equal leaving (I agree with you there will be one). The EU doen't "punish" or reward for that matter - it is a group of 28 nations trying to work together. The 27 we have tried to piss off may well collectively like to see the Euro adopted by the UK as proof that there is a genuine wish to embrace the ideals of a united Europe, but it is only "might".

    Legally there is no agreement. We (UK) have already in place agreement that the adoption of the Euro is not required for our continuing membership. It is possible (if unlikely) that one or more individual member states could think that it is unfair (on them) that we have this agreement. However, the adoption of the Euro as best I can see would not be overly burdensome to us. The problem with being a Eurozone member is that you cannot print your own money. We would not have been able to QE £435,000,000,000 into existence. Or to make the amount more understandable about 8 grand for every UK adult. In return if you were paid - for example - €30k in 2015 your salary would be €30k this year, as opposed to the €26 it is worth today (assuming no pay rise).

    In the long term the effects of leaving behind our primary export market will be significant. Also the immediate and negative effects of abandoning the 35 agreements with other countries that the EU already gives us will hit the UK hard in terms of it's exports of goods. The big question to ponder is what effect will there be upon the service sector? As best I can see it the UK's exporting of goods is now pretty much finished and we should begin to think about a future in which there is little manufacturing, farming or fishing as predicted by Minford et al. The north will be the most damaged, but it is important to recognise the manufacturing in the south as well. Renault-Vauxhall in Luton, Honda in Swindon both major employers and well south of the Wash-Mersey line.

    One effect on services is the imposition of travel restrictions on UK to EU and vice versa. The new EU visa limits to 90 days the ability of key UK workers to be in the EU. (see https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/) This could have a negative effect on UK citizens wishing to conduct business in the EU and certainly encourage employers to favour EU citizens over UK ones or those with dual nationality UK-Irish for example. Looking back at some of the contract work I have done (Westdeutsche Landesbank for example) I can see that these sorts of contracts will no longer be open to UK passport holders.

    It is my view therefore that UK service industries will be disadvantaged by Brexit, just as physical exports of goods will be hit. Euro clearing and EU insurance could well be hit hard. Fintec is already moving to the EU and I can see that other big earner and big wage sectors will see there is more opportunity going forward in being EU domiciled as well as (in due course) EU based. Panasonic have gone, it's tax revenues and future development will no longer benefit the UK. In time the big job numbers will move too I am sure. I have done a couple of contracts for Panasonic Japan (in France and Germany) and can guarantee they see the EU as a prime development market for their goods. The UK will end up just an add-on.

    I remember one not very bright contributor to the last big thread suggesting I should not be so negative and look to the new opportunities. Please, my friend, be assured I have thought of little else in the last 2 years. When I find one I will modify my plans accordingly. Currently I am waiting to see if UK state pensions will still be payable if you live in France and still increase in line with UK increases or if they will be frozen at departure level as in Canada or South Africa. I am loathe to see 35 years NI contributions amount to nothing. Failing a good outcome Dublin beckons and it's lovely Guinness, Beamish and Murphys. (oh and it's rain )

  9. #29
    Old but keen Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Yes a second referendum on the deal would be the most prudent way forwards. I am sure that many now have a better understanding of the potential cost of a no deal Brexit and that a good deal Brexit gains absolutely nothing of what Brexit voters wanted.


    My fear is a conservative morel vacuum as they look at the potential for a Hong Kong model which would oppress the week and enrich the already rich. Sadly theres no drive in Labour under Corbyn because he wants to renationalise, and he cant do that under EU rules on free trade.

    So I don't hold out much hope


    But I have of course signed the petition attended the rallies and writen to my MP and faught on every internet forum to enlighten and debate so when my kids look at the older generation with hatred in their eyes at their ignorance, I can at least tell them I tried.

  10. #30
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase View Post


    But I have of course signed the petition attended the rallies and writen to my MP and faught on every internet forum to enlighten and debate so when my kids look at the older generation with hatred in their eyes at their ignorance, I can at least tell them I tried.
    Indeed.
    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart


 

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