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  1. #6271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    FWIW I agree that having 2+ kids should be discouraged. Personally I would say the number of children a person has should be of no consequence to their tax or their welfare payments.
    When limiting Family Benefit to two children was proposed, there was an outcry from the Islamic community who claimed it was Islamophobic. The spokesman pointed out that the average family size of those of Pakistani origin was 7 and up to 14 was not unusual.

  2. #6272
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    Our nephew, who is a keen conservationist worked as press officer for the Green Party HQ for several months after several years at the BMA. He left, totally disillusioned at the in-fighting, back-stabbing and inconsistency of their policies. He said that they were absolutely no different from any other political party. Those in charge were only interested in power by whatever means.

  3. #6273
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    Our nephew, who is a keen conservationist worked as press officer for the Green Party HQ for several months after several years at the BMA. He left, totally disillusioned at the in-fighting, back-stabbing and inconsistency of their policies. He said that they were absolutely no different from any other political party. Those in charge were only interested in power by whatever means.
    Which is the issue. The people who want the position see the words that get them there as nothing more than the vehicle.
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  4. #6274
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    ... He said that they were absolutely no different from any other political party. Those in charge were only interested in power by whatever means.
    The problem is that without power no party can achieve anything. This breeds a culture of people that seek power and are prepared to compromise to do so. In this respect it is unrealistic to imagine any UK party that is serious would have any goal other than to seek power. In a PR system a party can much more easily put forward a set of values and accept that the party will not form a government but will nevertheless have influence on the way the country is run.

    In the European Elections my MEP was a Green - Molly Scott Cato. The greens as a group have enough influence in the European Parliament that they can at least influence the direction of things to an extent. In the UK there is only one Green MP and therefore the views of this person can be ignored. Green votes nationally in the last election were c850,000 but representation is one 650th of the UK government.

    I am more than happy to join in the criticism of various policies of the Green Party of the UK. It has faults. I certainly do not agree with it 100% What though is the alternative? The Labour party offered a Green New Deal and I voted for it. My criticism of the Labour party is more significant than the Greens but they (Labour) at least stood a chance of power. Failing that we are back with the current anti-environmentalist BlueKIP party that are busy making Extinction Rebellion into a banned terrorist group.

    If I were to give one over-arching criticism of UK politics it is that it is massively negative. Vote for me - I'm not him. And people do.

    So we elect the kill-your-kids party again and again.
    We give £350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  5. #6275
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    The problem with PR is that it often results in multi-party coalitions in which the small parties weild far more power than their level of support justifies. you only have to look at Israel to see the sort of problems that can cause.

  6. #6276
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    The problem with PR is that it often results in multi-party coalitions in which the small parties weild far more power than their level of support justifies. you only have to look at Israel to see the sort of problems that can cause.
    There's a problem with everything. Life is not perfect. I am open to any idea that anyone has regarding the correct and fair and proportional way in which to elect a representative body to governance. Until anyone gives a shit we have to work with what is in place now. The electorate turned down the opportunity to modernise the system when it was given.

    We have to move past the bullshit excuse phase. There are bullshit excuses for everything. Bullshit excuses why people cannot vote for any kind of meaningful change in our output of fossil CO2. Bullshit about how the UK is cutting CO when it is simply offshoring it. Bullshit excuses why we cannot move to renewable energy and so on. Bullshit excuses why we need to fly here, there and everywhere. The problem is that the bullshit doesn't fool the environment like it does the people that come out with the bullshit and those that eat it.

    PR, first past the post or STV or whatever you want. I'm easy. I am sure people will find bullshit excuses to vote Tory all the same.
    We give £350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  7. #6277
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    I was always very anti coalition government, however I found the Cameron-Clegg coalition to be more than adequate overall.
    Certainly more palatable than anything from the last six years or so.
    It has however resulted in the total destruction of two major political parties; Chris`s dismissive "BlueKIP", is a little too close to the money for me, and Lib Dems are about as common as virgins in a maternity ward these days.

  8. #6278
    Remember, remember Adrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    Our nephew, who is a keen conservationist worked as press officer for the Green Party HQ for several months after several years at the BMA. He left, totally disillusioned at the in-fighting, back-stabbing and inconsistency of their policies. He said that they were absolutely no different from any other political party. Those in charge were only interested in power by whatever means.
    It has been said on the Westminster representation of one Green MP is that there can never be division, unlike the rest of the party.
    Mah Nà Mah Nà

  9. #6279
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    I was always very anti coalition government, however I found the Cameron-Clegg coalition to be more than adequate overall.
    Certainly more palatable than anything from the last six years or so.
    It has however resulted in the total destruction of two major political parties; Chris`s dismissive "BlueKIP", is a little too close to the money for me, and Lib Dems are about as common as virgins in a maternity ward these days.
    The coalition, while it did work to reign in some of the excesses of the Tories, has had the effect of reducing the Lib Dem's (who were becoming an important third party) to a sideline party (dropping from 23% pre coalition to below 8% after it and dropping their seats from 57 to 8) as they were seen to compromise on too many things.

  10. #6280
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    The coalition, while it did work to reign in some of the excesses of the Tories, has had the effect of reducing the Lib Dem's (who were becoming an important third party) to a sideline party (dropping from 23% pre coalition to below 8% after it and dropping their seats from 57 to 8) as they were seen to compromise on too many things.
    I think Clegg's agreement with the Tory tuition fees and subsequent (much mocked) apology is the key issue. If he had stood his ground on that one thing I feel that many people would have kept some respect for the party. To then go work for facebook suggest to me he probably was only "sorry" that it cost him the job and really he was very comfortable in Mr Cameron's company.

    All those silly newspaper and internet quizzes to tell you which policies you agree with put me firmly in Lib Dem territory but I'm afraid I would not vote for them over this issue.
    We give £350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.


 

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