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  1. #5991
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Wow, get you and all your pitch forks eh

    I'll try again.

    I am not suggesting that there aren't issues, neither am I saying that decisions, contingency planning etc made since Brexit were not driven by Brexit.

    I am simply saying that they were not, could not have been driven by the changes that have been implemented.

    The truth is, we didn't know what would happen, it could have ended up anywhere between retaining open market access to a hard Brexit.

    Trying to suggest contingency planning made 18 months again were caused by tax regime changes that were implemented last month is obviously wrong.
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  2. #5992
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    ...
    The truth is, we didn't know what would happen, it could have ended up anywhere between retaining open market access to a hard Brexit. ....
    Theresa May set the bar with the red lines and the observation she would not keep the UK in the EEA and have "immigration by the back door". Single market membership included free movement and with that ruled out the only negotiation was whether or not we had tariffs or some sort of trade agreement.

    I agree in principle there was uncertainty until after the election of the current PM simply because an incoming Labour government would not have been bound by the stupidity of the May administration's pandering to the racist element. However after the 2017 election there was only doubt if there would be a WTO walk out with tariffs or if there would be a basic agreement on trade. It turns out (thankfully) to have been the latter (arguably due to the departure of Trump) and with very little time to scrutinise or prepare.

    From July 17 onwards the writing was on the wall in very big letters. The uncertainty from that point was over a walk out or not. Any company that intended to continue to import or export with our EU neighbours almost certainly was engaged in planning based on a customs procedure that had previously been unnecessary. The tax is near on irrelevant to the overall paperwork and there is a deferment scheme for VAT to mitigate the cash flow issues.

    My chemicals sideline was hit by the REACH changes and we are now without any stock and turning away what little business there is (covid has driven the downturn at present, not Brexit) I doubt that we will bother with the admin costs of a full REACH compliance and so I am looking at shutting it down altogether in March or thereabouts. The VAT and shipping issues are surmountable, the cost and work involved in the non tariff trade barriers are not. It is not my core business but is a contributor and with it gone the rest of the product range has to bear the full overheads of the warehouse and business admin costs. Next move therefore is to look at smaller premises with lower rent and business rates.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  3. #5993
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Theresa May set the bar with the red lines and the observation she would not keep the UK in the EEA and have "immigration by the back door". Single market membership included free movement and with that ruled out the only negotiation was whether or not we had tariffs or some sort of trade agreement.

    I agree in principle there was uncertainty until after the election of the current PM simply because an incoming Labour government would not have been bound by the stupidity of the May administration's pandering to the racist element. However after the 2017 election there was only doubt if there would be a WTO walk out with tariffs or if there would be a basic agreement on trade. It turns out (thankfully) to have been the latter (arguably due to the departure of Trump) and with very little time to scrutinise or prepare.

    From July 17 onwards the writing was on the wall in very big letters. The uncertainty from that point was over a walk out or not. Any company that intended to continue to import or export with our EU neighbours almost certainly was engaged in planning based on a customs procedure that had previously been unnecessary. The tax is near on irrelevant to the overall paperwork and there is a deferment scheme for VAT to mitigate the cash flow issues.

    My chemicals sideline was hit by the REACH changes and we are now without any stock and turning away what little business there is (covid has driven the downturn at present, not Brexit) I doubt that we will bother with the admin costs of a full REACH compliance and so I am looking at shutting it down altogether in March or thereabouts. The VAT and shipping issues are surmountable, the cost and work involved in the non tariff trade barriers are not. It is not my core business but is a contributor and with it gone the rest of the product range has to bear the full overheads of the warehouse and business admin costs. Next move therefore is to look at smaller premises with lower rent and business rates.
    The issue I have is that the Guardian have chosen sensationalist headlines, and content, over accurate reporting. Personally I think it's irresponsible, it muddies the waters, generates concern and misinformation where in some instances it's not warranted.

    Leaving Europe was never going to be a walk in the park, for the UK or the EU, and of course there are absolutely very real challenges, risks, costs etc for some businesses, as TimW, you and others have shared; people have and will lose businesses and jobs, and that's without the affect of Covid. Getting a broad brush, misrepresenting those issues incorrectly, or too generally, just exacerbates the problem. I've seen and had 1st hand discussions with people that have completely the wrong end of the stick about B2B import/export from EU and ROW, who needs to be VAT registered etc, are using that as the baseline for business decisions. It's in all of the papers, so it must be true, right?

    On a slightly different note; seems VAT deferment isn't in place across the board just yet.... just received a VAT invoice (no duty or handling fee) from FedEx for an EU import that was delivered a couple of weeks back. Just received an order from China today, so will see how that one goes.

    As you say, the one silver lining (sort of) is that reduced movement and trade from Covid has given us a bit of breathing space. I just hope people use it wisely.
    Last edited by Stuart Keasley; 27-01-2021 at 08:35 PM.
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  4. #5994
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    The issue I have is that the Guardian have chosen sensationalist headlines, and content, over accurate reporting. Personally I think it's irresponsible, it muddies the waters, generates concern and misinformation where in some instances it's not warranted...
    That is how the press work. The reason we left the EU is the "sensationalist headlines and content" chosen over "accurate reporting" by the Mail, Sun, Express and by the continued diet of lies in the Telegraph written by it's journalist; Alexander (Boris) Johnson.

    Mr Johnson lied for as long as he reported. The more stupid the more the Telegraph liked it. Unlike Max Hastings who sacked him the Telegraph paid him a quarter of a million pounds a year to lie and lie and lie. He (Johnson) was and is Britain's Trump.

    But you are correct it "muddies the waters, generates concern and misinformation". Now we will pay the price for it.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  5. #5995
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post

    But you are correct it "muddies the waters, generates concern and misinformation". Now we will pay the price for it.
    Absolutely.

    Just because it sits on the side of anti Brexit, doesn't make the misinformation any less damaging.

    The Brexit campaign got us here, however it is what happens now that will determine how we come out of it.
    Last edited by Stuart Keasley; 28-01-2021 at 09:00 AM.
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  6. #5996
    M.D., Beaver Sports (Yorks) Ltd
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    I've spent pretty much all my working time over the last month doing nothing except trying to move goods to and from Europe, we knew it was going to be bad, but the nonsense involved has simply been of the scale. Some parcels with DPD to places like Lithuania, Italy, Czech Republic, Holland, Germany and Sweden finally got out of the country on their 4th attempt. On Monday we eventually received 2 pallets of mainly cylinder valves that I arranged to be collected on the 15th of December, we still have 2 pallets of cylinders sat in a warehouse in Germany, 50 sheets of Neoprene left the other side of Berlin around 3 weeks ago, they got as far as Holland before being returned to sender and on it goes. Anyway, we are now starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel after working with transport companies whose new systems were sadly lacking. It's been a disaster for thousands of Companies and that's us with 38 years experience of import and export, I wouldn't mind all this crap so much if just one person can tell me what they personally actually have to gain, all you ever get as a response is silence....... Fingers crossed we will be able to sweeten our European customers up enough to maintain their valued business, it's around 50% of what we do.

  7. #5997
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1963 View Post
    Fingers crossed we will be able to sweeten our European customers up enough to maintain their valued business, it's around 50% of what we do.
    I'd be looking at opening up a European warehouse if I was you pal.

    Going to be more of this shit to come every time the tories try and do some "brittania unchained" bollox and the EU sanction us for it I would imagine...

  8. #5998
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1963 View Post
    ... I wouldn't mind all this crap so much if just one person can tell me what they personally actually have to gain, ...
    Stuart's camera equipment is a tad cheaper from China.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  9. #5999
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFO View Post
    I'd be looking at opening up a European warehouse if I was you pal.

    Going to be more of this shit to come every time the tories try and do some "brittania unchained" bollox and the EU sanction us for it I would imagine...
    LOL.

    Yes, there is a widespread failure to notice that as the UK diverges from its current position that more red tape and possibly tariffs are going to be imposed.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  10. #6000
    Established TDF Member Doomanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Seriously, forget about sidemount - it's bollocks.


 

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