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  1. #5931
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    The cost of Brexit starting to make itself felt.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

  2. #5932
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    The cost of Brexit starting to make itself felt.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
    Project Fear shill!
    Remember anything you read on the internet was probably written by some guy sitting at home in his underpants! Including this !!

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  3. #5933
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
    From what I have read, which is not a huge amount, on bylinenews their angle is often about exposing government failure or corruption. As any publication they can have their own editorial line. However, to imply that they are out at an extreme end of politics to point that they make the daily look centrist doesn't stack up as far as I have seen. Similarly the daily mail has poor track record when it comes to journalistic integrity / factual reporting so to claim that they, by comparison, look objective is a surely a stretch.
    I think you're probably taking my tongue in cheek comparison just a little too literally... although with that said

    • ByLineTimes sights seem to be aimed purely at right wing targets. Looking back through "Facts" (Opinions, surely?), I could not find a single article aimed at Labour, EU Governance etc, and the phrasing and stance of the articles were far from objective.
    • The Mail, whilst obviously and undeniably right wing bias, are quite happy to put the boot in on all sides, just as long as it gets a few more clicks

    [in honesty, not entirely sure which is worse/better ]
    Last edited by Stuart Keasley; 21-01-2021 at 01:58 PM.
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  4. #5934
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    The cost of Brexit starting to make itself felt.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
    It's a real cost to the consumer, although details are a bit lacking. As the goods were for export, the retailer should have deducted VAT at source, so there should have been a cost saving roughly equivalent to to the additional cost of VAT at import. (The retailer doesn't have to, of course)

    However, assuming the goods were made outside of the EU (e.g China, India), they would have taken a 12% hit on duty, and the agent will charge their fee on both VAT and any import Duty.

    So regardless of the VAT element, there still would have been additional fees to pay on import.

    In real terms, this means the consumer is less likely to buy from the EU, more likely to spend the money in the UK. So in general, in terms of UK business and GDP, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  5. #5935
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    ... more likely to spend the money in the UK. ...
    if only we made stuff eh?
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  6. #5936
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Keasley View Post
    It's a real cost to the consumer, although details are a bit lacking. As the goods were for export, the retailer should have deducted VAT at source, so there should have been a cost saving roughly equivalent to to the additional cost of VAT at import. (The retailer doesn't have to, of course)

    However, assuming the goods were made outside of the EU (e.g China, India), they would have taken a 12% hit on duty, and the agent will charge their fee on both VAT and any import Duty.

    So regardless of the VAT element, there still would have been additional fees to pay on import.

    In real terms, this means the consumer is less likely to buy from the EU, more likely to spend the money in the UK. So in general, in terms of UK business and GDP, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
    Since day one on the big thread, I have been asking about "SELLING", nobody even notices; all you get is buying, buy cheaper, no tariffs, cheaper.

    The money still goes "OUT" of the economy and ends up abroad, invariably China.
    Consider the economy as a closed system, buying is money leaving; where does it come from, what actually creates it?
    Even a vast number of the UK "business" sector (banks, utilities, ports, airports, airlines...) are actually foreign owned, so even their profits (and taxes, Dyson, Mogg) are exported from the "system".

    Really not seen a plan yet other than throw everything under the bus, with a side of there will be an opportunity eventually.

    Historically people lost their heads for trying to f**k the country over, now they get elected.

  7. #5937
    Established TDF Member steelemonkey's Avatar
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    Paul.
    If God had meant us to breathe underwater, he would have given us larger bank balances.
    Human beings were invented by water as a means of moving itself from one place to another.

  8. #5938
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    ...
    Consider the economy as a closed system, buying is money leaving; where does it come from, what actually creates it?...
    For the UK it is primarily the financial services sector. Mrs Thatcher called them "invisible exports". In order to generate the money that leaves we sell something or another to get money to come in.

    Overall the UK runs a balance of payments deficit - we buy more than we sell. The Tory obsession with selling off everything to foreign owners adds to the problem. In fairness some foreign companies are UK owned so the dividends return here. As I have often posted nevertheless the overall is an outflow of UK currency. A very big balance in recent years has been the sell off of property, notably high end London property. As the pound falls the London property has become "cheap" compared to other world cities.

    In addition to a balance of payments deficit we have a current account deficit (made a thousand times worse by covid). So the government is getting more in debt (well your kids - the future taxpayers more exactly) and we are shovelling cash into China and other foreign governments' coffers.

    Eventually this will cause the fall of GBP as a currency. So as ever James you are right to point out that the UK is heading towards a bad place. Brexit hastens the journey of course as we have thrown away our trading advantage in financial services with the EU. Also you are correct that too much is made of physical goods and the importation thereof and them being "cheaper" which was one of the many profound lies of the Brexit advocates.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    ...
    Historically people lost their heads for trying to f**k the country over, now they get elected.
    The Atlantic bridge people had planned to subjugate the UK to US standards but the recent failure of Trump to get re-elected has screwed that idea. Neither they nor the Tories really set out to or want to fuck up the UK as such, they just want to enrich themselves and consider the UK to be collateral damage. Wealth is International and following globalisation so too now is poverty. Thus you have the increase in poverty in the UK and US whilst both economies have been doing reasonably well. In both countries this is built on the growth in capital value of real estate. It is unsustainable but this is not important if you can milk it and get out before the bust. Anyone that trades shares understands this.

    People vote against their own best interests for a variety of reasons but mainly because they fall for a fabricated reality constructed deliberately to fool them. We are seeing this fabricated reality failing in real time in the USA right now. The UK will follow. Of that I am sure. Historically that precedent is very strong.
    Last edited by Chrisch; 21-01-2021 at 12:26 PM.
    We give 350m a week to the EU. Let's give it to Dido Harding instead.

  9. #5939
    bottlefish Stuart Keasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    Since day one on the big thread, I have been asking about "SELLING", nobody even notices; all you get is buying, buy cheaper, no tariffs, cheaper.

    The money still goes "OUT" of the economy and ends up abroad, invariably China.
    Consider the economy as a closed system, buying is money leaving; where does it come from, what actually creates it?
    Even a vast number of the UK "business" sector (banks, utilities, ports, airports, airlines...) are actually foreign owned, so even their profits (and taxes, Dyson, Mogg) are exported from the "system".

    Really not seen a plan yet other than throw everything under the bus, with a side of there will be an opportunity eventually.

    Historically people lost their heads for trying to f**k the country over, now they get elected.
    If the consumer purchases the product from an overseas retailer, then all of the money leaves the country. Some goes to the overseas country where the goods were purchased, some goes to the country where the goods were manufactured (and whilst we were in the EU, chances are we wouldn't even get the VAT on the sale).
    If the consumer purchases the product from a UK retailer, then some of the money, the margin on the imported goods, plus the VAT, remains in the country.

    So whilst money still goes out of the country, it's not as much.

    I don't think cheaper comes into it, the initial purchase and supply costs of the product, and costs of selling to the consumer (i.e running the retail outlet, staff etc) are going to be similar, so the end product price should be similar as well. The only difference is (in this instance) where the supply is coming from, whether it's a UK based company or overseas company selling to the consumer.

    [Edit : foreign owned, tax evasion, all that stuff. As the Factortame case showed, we had absolutely no choice on this whilst in the EU, where as we do now. Whether we do or not, should or not etc, completely different topic, personally I don't think it's a simple yes or no either way... but then I rarely do ]
    Last edited by Stuart Keasley; 21-01-2021 at 01:01 PM.
    Please visit bottlefish for my personal web site, Quay Cameras to chat to me about the cameras and kit that I sell

  10. #5940
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    Hello all!

    I've been a bit busy recently as I had to get a new job after my old one disappeared because of Brexit. The good news is my new job (while morally questionable) has never been busier!

    I went to buy something for 200 from a regular supplier (happens to be in Germany) Price now due to VAT, Duty, documentation and handling charges, 280! a 40% increase. Very happy about that!

    My only other option at a cost of 250, Amazon... I wonder how much extra the UK government will get from the worlds largest tax evasion experts.

    I missed you guys!


 

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