Leaving the EU (not really a rant)...

[Paul Evans]

We didn't need to wait long before the government demonstrated its commitment to the environment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55668507

Sometimes, you don't have to wait and see. If there's no evidence to support the claim and a track record of doing the opposite, you can extrapolate and make a judgement call. Or you can wait, and then wring your hands and say "I can't believe they lied... again! If only I had known..." and similar remarks, as you sit in the entirely predictable mess.

Why take offence when you can sit on it.

[Stuart Keasley]

We didn't need to wait long before the government demonstrated its commitment to the environment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55668507

Sometimes, you don't have to wait and see. If there's no evidence to support the claim and a track record of doing the opposite, you can extrapolate and make a judgement call. Or you can wait, and then wring your hands and say "I can't believe they lied... again! If only I had known..." and similar remarks, as you sit in the entirely predictable mess.

I'm not sure I get the point?

We are destroying this world. That's not something peculiar to the Conservatives, its an issue right across the board. Any political party that's has any chance of getting into power, here or abroad, will guaranteed adopt policies that harm the environment.

This thread is a prime example of how twisted our priorities are, how far down that road of self destruction we've travelled. Over 6000 posts, the vast majority focused on trade and money. Conservation and environmental concerns are a byline. However with a machine as large as the EU, it should be at the fore front of discussions.

So back to the point. I expect the government [edit : and/or the local council, in this case a labour/lib dem alliance] to fuck up continually on the environment, so I'm not going to bat an eye lid when they do.

But the small victories, the surprises that filter through, like possible protection for Dogger Banks, stopping export of shark fin, live animals, stopping import of puppies and kittens as pets, I will celebrate and recognise. Not just because it's unexpected, and a movement in the right direction, but also because the more that people give the government the message that the environment is more important to them than being able to buy our favourite fruit from the supermarket all year round, the more they will prioritise on those issues.

That's pretty much why I find it hard to hold an opinion about Brexit. As far as I'm concerned, it's a waste of energy, arguing about completely the wrong subject.

[Chrisch]

.... Brexit. As far as I'm concerned, it's a waste of energy, arguing about completely the wrong subject.

Only if you accept the premise that the people behind it were not intent upon reducing the environmental protection that already exists.

Nevertheless I accept totally that it is the wrong priority.

I hope the rejection of Trump (Brexit fan) and the election of Biden (anti-Brexit) represents some sort of a turning point in the general decision by the human race that this should be the last generation to enjoy the planet.

[graham_hk]

Only if you accept the premise that the people behind it were not intent upon reducing the environmental protection that already exists.

Nevertheless I accept totally that it is the wrong priority.

I hope the rejection of Trump (Brexit fan) and the election of Biden (anti-Brexit) represents some sort of a turning point in the general decision by the human race that this should be the last generation to enjoy the planet.

I love your conspiracy theories haha. at the end of the day politicians are a product of the people they represent - the utter twats (all parties) now in parliament have been voted for by the population who generally don't give a shit about anything but themselves. Sad but true, it's laughable a diver could even consider themselves an environmentalist - given how wasteful our hobby is - unless youre hand pumping recycled tanks and kayaking in a homemade kayak out to the dive site launching from a harbour that you walked to.

[Ken]

Numbers... 68% drop in exports to the EU in January year on year.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...8-since-brexit

This is worse than I had expected even considering Covid.

[Jay_Benson]

Numbers... 68% drop in exports to the EU in January year on year.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...8-since-brexit

This is worse than I had expected even considering Covid.

We are coating some products that will be making their way to the Netherlands once we have done them - I am hoping that this is not the last one as, whilst not a big earner, it helps profitability.

[Doomanic]

Numbers... 68% drop in exports to the EU in January year on year.

We’ve had enough of exports…

[Chrisch]

I love your conspiracy theories haha. at the end of the day politicians are a product of the people they represent - the utter twats (all parties) now in parliament have been voted for by the population who generally don't give a shit about anything but themselves. Sad but true, it's laughable a diver could even consider themselves an environmentalist - given how wasteful our hobby is - unless youre hand pumping recycled tanks and kayaking in a homemade kayak out to the dive site launching from a harbour that you walked to.

Not sure where the conspiracy theory fits in but the rest is exactly the point I have tried to make for a long time. The UK voted in Johnson and neither he nor those that voted for him give a shit about other people or the future. Whilst I also agree that the opposition are twats they at least offered a "green new deal" which was roundly rejected. I am sure it would have been disappointing but it would have at least moved in vaguely the right direction.

Yes, we divers are users of resources. All of human life is. But if we change the energy from fossil to renewable you change the whole paradigm. What use is a "green" world in which everyone lives in a yurt and makes clothes out of recycled newspaper?

The way forward in my opinion is for the world to work together towards a mutually agreed set of goals. As a simple 'for instance' the reduction of CO2 emissions from vehicular traffic - something the EU commission has proposed and quantified but has been watered down by individual member states and by fossil fuel and automotive manufacturer's lobby groups. The compromise - an "averaged" CO2 per manufacturer has driven the bullshit of electronic power as some sort of nirvana. All fought against by the likes of UKIP and the anti EU wankers. In the US the equivalent (cafe) was scrapped by Trump.

If the world works together and agrees the solution it is not only possible it is actually easy. Wind, wave, solar, geothermal and so on are all existing technologies that we can ramp up to the required level. So much CO2 is from housing and it really is a shoo in to start there - better housing, better insulation and "green" heating from things like heat pumps. Mandate solar panels on roofs where it makes sense. (They have built huge housing estates near us in Montpellier and hardly a panel on them)

The political energy and time wasted arguing about leaving the EU could have easily been energy in bringing about massive changes that would move the economy in the right direction. Using the UK's influence to move in that direction would have been a major factor, but the emphasis has been on cutting environmental protection and buying in cheap Chinese shit made with coal powered electricity.

There is no conspiracy. It is called "capitalism" and it is killing us. For sure magic grandpa and his stone age politics were not and are not the answer but carrying on as we are has only one outcome. As Ms Thunberg points out we need to go in that direction and we are running at full tilt in the opposite direction.

[Stuart Keasley]

We didn't need to wait long before the government demonstrated its commitment to the environment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55668507

So, as is so often the case, it seems that the detail behind the headline is perhaps not so cut and dried. Further information suggests :

- The proposed coal mine in Cumbria is purely for supply of coking coal to the British steel industry
- Coking coal is currently the only viable way of producing steel
- The British steel industry currently imports coal in from Russia and Australia

So what are the alternatives?

- Continue to import coal from Russia and Australia, with obvious CO2 implications for transport (and the same amount of CO2 used in steel production)
- Stop/reduce British steel production, import steel from overseas, again with the CO2 hit on transport
- Stop/reduce British steel production, find alternative materials, which would likely lead to increased use of composites, plastics, and all the problems they bring with them

I don't know nearly enough about it to know, however it certainly doesn't look like a simple black and white decision.

[jamesp]

So, as is so often the case, it seems that the detail behind the headline is perhaps not so cut and dried. Further information suggests :

- The proposed coal mine in Cumbria is purely for supply of coking coal to the British steel industry
- Coking coal is currently the only viable way of producing steel
- The British steel industry currently imports coal in from Russia and Australia

So what are the alternatives?

- Continue to import coal from Russia and Australia, with obvious CO2 implications for transport (and the same amount of CO2 used in steel production)
- Stop/reduce British steel production, import steel from overseas, again with the CO2 hit on transport
- Stop/reduce British steel production, find alternative materials, which would likely lead to increased use of composites, plastics, and all the problems they bring with them

I don't know nearly enough about it to know, however it certainly doesn't look like a simple black and white decision.

I was going to post this, But did not want to get involved.
Coking coal is actually used as part of the chemical (reduction) process for producing steel; that would be beyond the comprehension of many however.