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  1. #1571
    Established TDF Member Doomanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Both sides think the other side is wrong. Both sides cannot be right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Seriously, forget about sidemount - it's bollocks.

  2. #1572
    Established TDF Member steelemonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase View Post
    Our apologies.

    Some of us reely care about the future of our country and its people, and I know that must be tedious.
    Mark, your caring about this subject is to be admired and I am not knocking you, or others, for being passionate.
    What I find tedious is when people have different opinions but cannot accept anything the other person says and resort to insulting one another.
    Paul.
    If God had meant us to breathe underwater, he would have given us larger bank balances.
    Human beings were invented by water as a means of moving itself from one place to another.

  3. #1573
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelemonkey View Post
    ..What I find tedious is when people have different opinions but cannot accept anything the other person says and resort to insulting one another.
    I think the bottom paragraph of you 6/9 poster sums it up very well. The insults really are the result of the repeated assertion of opinion as fact. There are objective facts and then there are things that people want to be true. The Northern Irish border is a good example, it is covered in the Good Friday Agreement which is a public document. It currently is nothing more than a line on a map. If the UK and the EU have different customs arrangements then goods travelling over the border would need to be checked, thus necessitating a physical checkpoint. If the status of a person crossing the border changes - from legal to illegal for example - then people crossing the border would need to be checked, also requiring a physical checkpoint. If that border control is not put in place then the UK (and the EU) will have lost control of it's border.

    To keep the border as it currently is the UK and the EU must share the same customs regulations and tariffs in order to let goods flow freely over the border. I believe this is called a "backstop" in the May/Robbins withdrawal agreement. It does not address the issue of people of course but it would appear that allowing illegal immigrants into the UK is not something that bothers the government so we can ignore that. There is, I think I am right in saying, some controversy over the May/Robbins backstop. However it is clear that it is intended as a solution to an intractable problem. Well that is my opinion - I don't know for a fact Mrs May thinks that, she doesn't confide in me.

    There is an opinion - expressed by people that want it to be true even though it is not - that this border issue is unimportant. I do not share that.

  4. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelemonkey View Post
    Mark, your caring about this subject is to be admired and I am not knocking you, or others, for being passionate.
    What I find tedious is when people have different opinions but cannot accept anything the other person says and resort to insulting one another.
    People should not be entitled to an opinion if itís wrong, Letís say I have the opinion that all left handed people are genetically inferior and should be shot. Should people just accept that? People are too selfish and stupid to do whatís correct for the greater good - democracy has failed as the mess that trump and Brexit are causing has proved. Politicians stopped a long time ago serving the people and just serve themselves

  5. #1575
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelemonkey View Post
    Mark, your caring about this subject is to be admired and I am not knocking you, or others, for being passionate.
    What I find tedious is when people have different opinions but cannot accept anything the other person says and resort to insulting one another.
    Sorry we are boring you Steelmonkey however [REDACTED - I wrote what I thought of a few peoples opinions here and decided against posting it], it's facts vs. feelings.

    The only person to provide some actual facts that support their position is Stuart with his information about the CFP. I believe harming 99.5% of the economy for the sake of some competition on 0.5% is not worth the trade-off, a fact I would hope everyone would agree with, but I concede I might struggle to convince a fisherman who just wants to earn a living.

    Hopefully it will all be over soon and either everything will either be back to normal, or we will be far too busy trying to find work, food, medicine, a way out of the country etc. to have time to squabble on the internet.

  6. #1576
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    Many remainers on here seem reluctant to accept what they see as facts are only opinions. Both ways!!!!!!!!!!!! Mr. Hammond's stats for the long term situation must make remainers squirm. When did the treasury ever get a long term forecast right? This small majority thing is a bit of a red herring too. Never have so many people in Britain voted for a course of action. And please don't ever mention the non-voters. If they couldn't be bothered to vote(either way) it doesn't count.

    Looking at the problems across the channel does make me wonder at some of the protestations of "everything will be wonderful and stay the same for ever in the EU" the remainers make as something of a pipe dream as well.

    I believe that when Cameron went to the EU if the EU had seriously been willing to discuss some reform of the worse aspects of the EU the CAP and CFP need serious review (How any diver can think that the Danish fishing indusry sucking up vast numbers of sand eels, making a big hole in the food chain, to use as fertiliser and to burn the oil is OK defeats me!), the waste of moving the parliament, the fact that there is pitifully little overview of spending by MEPs and senior bureaucrats would have been a start and might have meant that we would not been in today's position but nobody in Berlin, Paris or Brussels seemed to understand or perhaps did not want to understand that maybe change was needed, so now we are where we are.

    David.

  7. #1577
    Confused? You will be. Jay_Benson's Avatar
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    Economists make forecasts. They are never right (well almost never). However if you step back and stop looking at the fine details and look instead at the trends and generality of the forecast then they suddenly become a useful tool to aid comparisons between different scenarios. That is what the Treasury and BofE have done - released forecasts of how the different scenarios look in comparison to one another - they don’t expect to be bang on the money (there are too many unknown factors to be exact) but they are likely to be in the right ballpark. When you get a series of independent forecasts that align given similar scenarios then that adds weight to the forecasts being in the right ballpark.
    For information to help you plan your dive trip in the UK and Eire try www.planyourdivetrip.co.uk

    Public transport planning info at www.traveline.info

  8. #1578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase View Post
    Sadly rabbit meet has no nutritional value and cant sustain life
    I think you are being a little unfair to rabbits. There is plenty of nutrition in rabbits, but you wouldn't do very well if you ate nothing but rabbit (i.e. "rabbit starvation").

  9. #1579
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham_hk View Post
    People should not be entitled to an opinion if itís wrong, Letís say I have the opinion that all left handed people are genetically inferior and should be shot. Should people just accept that? People are too selfish and stupid to do whatís correct for the greater good - democracy has failed as the mess that trump and Brexit are causing has proved. Politicians stopped a long time ago serving the people and just serve themselves
    We had this discussion a while back with Stuart if you recall and it might be semantics but I don't 100% agree with you, Graham. People are entitled to their own opinions, whatever they are. We should respect that right - the right to hold their own opinions. If their opinions differ from ours and neither can be proven, that's the only fair way to treat someone with respect. But if their opinions are blatantly and demonstrably rubbish and they stubbornly refuse to accept the indisputable facts that show that, then I do not have to respect them for it and they can be dismissed as the idiots they are, along with the nazis, the flat earth brigade and those who'd shoot left handed people. But they can choose to hold them anyway if they want IMHO. It's a free country and they'll expose themselves for what they are soon enough, though why anyone would consistently argue black is white is beyond me.

  10. #1580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay_Benson View Post
    Economists make forecasts. They are never right (well almost never). However if you step back and stop looking at the fine details and look instead at the trends and generality of the forecast then they suddenly become a useful tool to aid comparisons between different scenarios. That is what the Treasury and BofE have done - released forecasts of how the different scenarios look in comparison to one another - they don’t expect to be bang on the money (there are too many unknown factors to be exact) but they are likely to be in the right ballpark. When you get a series of independent forecasts that align given similar scenarios then that adds weight to the forecasts being in the right ballpark.
    Not a comment on the other stuff I mentioned? Also when Mervin King makes comments about Mark Carney is a servant of the people not of the Government in power and he should refrain from entering the political arena, doesn't concern you a little bit?

    David.


 

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