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  1. #4461
    Established TDF Member Wardy_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Aye.

    Except that their belief hasn’t been debunked by virtually every expert, and those responsible for delivering on their beliefs...

  2. #4462
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardy_uk View Post
    Except that their belief hasn’t been debunked by virtually every expert, and those responsible for delivering on their beliefs...
    True, so far no pope has admitted god does not exist. But in time, in time...

    Clearly we (humans) have a need to believe things and a willingness to believe things that we know deep down are not true. The Internet has made the absurdity of those beliefs ever more apparent and - it seems - ever more absurd. Someone will tell me next that the Clangers are not real.

  3. #4463
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    True, so far no pope has admitted god does not exist. But in time, in time...

    Clearly we (humans) have a need to believe things and a willingness to believe things that we know deep down are not true. The Internet has made the absurdity of those beliefs ever more apparent and - it seems - ever more absurd. Someone will tell me next that the Clangers are not real.
    "Their Creator claimed that in reality when the Clangers' were whistling, they were "swearing their little heads off".

    They obvouily saw brexit coming before anyone else!!
    Last edited by Paul Evans; 19-08-2019 at 04:38 PM.
    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  4. #4464
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    True, so far no pope has admitted god does not exist. But in time, in time...

    Clearly we (humans) have a need to believe things and a willingness to believe things that we know deep down are not true. The Internet has made the absurdity of those beliefs ever more apparent and - it seems - ever more absurd. Someone will tell me next that the Clangers are not real.
    The same flatearth / climate change denial fuckwits ?

  5. #4465
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John63 View Post
    The same flatearth / climate change denial fuckwits ?
    Hmm.. that's several groups there. I am sure there is some overlap but I don't think they are an homogenous group as such.

    I read the Economist article this morning about sea level rise and the $ trillions of real estate that are threatened by the projections for the end of the century. Needless to say the projections are varied and the opinions about how much the sea will rise depends largely on who you talk to and what their spin/bias/lunacy is. However, the bottom line seems to be that the financial cost is significant even if the best case scenario is the outcome.

    The "idiot" element as best I can see are the gullible that fall for what are clearly lies by the fossil fuel propaganda industry. I doubt that many of them (industry) really have anything other than a factual and accurate picture of what is happening.

    I feel the same is true of the EU debate - the propaganda is used to gain mass support for what is essentially a self destructive act. Johnson and the Unchained people know the harm that they intend to effect but need a people who are daft enough to fail to see it. Even within the party there are plenty of intellectually challenged people like Bridgen that probably do buy into the lies.

    Flat earth people are more of a mystery. Why cling to a belief that is demonstrably wrong? I guess you have to ask a psychologist for that one. There certainly appears to be a "comfort blanket" for some people in such beliefs. My guess is that it fills some sort of inadequacy by making them members of a special group that see "the truth" whilst others are misled. People do like to be group members of some sort (fellow scuba divers as an example, laughing at the "public" with their oxygen tanks and flippers). When science and observable phenomena counter the myth it is hard to understand why they persist though.

    Maybe we should let the Clangers run the world for a bit?

  6. #4466
    TDF Member JasminNeedsGills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    This price is also acceptable to most of the Tory membership and a significant amount of their voter base. The bigotry towards foreigners includes the Northern Irish and Scottish people it seems.

    We are in a dangerous place. This will not end well.
    The tories relationship with the the countries is.... complex... to say the very least. Almost all of them waffle on endlessly about "Our Precious Union" and openly court unionists, and even rely on the most insane unionist extremists for the Westminster majority. Yet, at the same time, naked self-interest (always a tory strong point) dictates that encouraging Scotland (and also Wales) to leave the UK is the right thing to do. Scotland in particular but also Wales are hostile territory for tories and a fixed deposit of extremely safe seats for rival parties. If Wales and Scotland left, then the tories would effectively enjoy an all but unchangeable one party state all to themselves in the remaining countries.

    Yet rather than encouraging independence, they preach about the "The Union", whilst they openly despise Scotland, Wales and NI, and sometimes throw some hate Cornwall's way too - and happily whip up that hatred amongst the English (not hating on the English here - it's government propaganda, pure and simple).

    My take on the contradiction is that the tories need to maintain the unionist line to keep certain traditionalist "One Nation" tory MPs and memebers on board, and also maintain the support of the NI unionist bloc - but at the same time the party knows full well thier best chance of maintain power in the face of demographic erosion is getting at least Scotland and ideally both Scotland and Wales to leave. To do that whilst maintaining the facade of union is the tough one, and they seem to have settled on adopting a "Hostile Environment" policy for Scottish and Welsh people as their way of squaring that circle.

  7. #4467
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasminNeedsGills View Post
    ...My take on the contradiction is that the tories need to maintain the unionist line to keep certain traditionalist "One Nation" tory MPs and memebers on board, ...
    I would imagine a lot of their voter base also. But I agree with your analysis.

    I wonder how much more before the violence really kicks off in NI? There was a bomb yesterday. The terrible truth is that the two "tribes" have very very different self images and that a great deal of effort and skill went into building a mutually acceptable position with the Belfast agreement. A lot of people moved just enough to accommodate the other side, so much so that McGuinness and Paisley actually grew to like one another. This should have been seen as a great victory for Mowlam and the Labour administration and - to be fair - to John Major who opened the door in the first place after Thatcher's intransigence. For such progress and cross party success to be thrown away just so Moggie/Paterson/Farage et al can make a mill or two on the Forex is disgusting.

  8. #4468
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    DUP backing bellend Boris about the backstop...

    "We have been strongly highlighting the fact that unionism in Northern Ireland does not support the backstop. None of the main unionist parties and groupings support the backstop. If Europe and the Republic of Ireland are serious about ensuring and recognising that progress in Northern Ireland is founded on support from both major traditions then it will have to face the reality that the backstop is not the way forward.

    The DUP wants to see a negotiated and orderly exit from the European Union based on no hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and no internal barriers to trade within the United Kingdom. The backstop has at its very heart an anti-democratic foundation where neither political representatives in London nor Belfast could change, or influence, rules made in Brussels to which Northern Ireland would be subjected.

    Those on all sides who genuinely want to see a deal will recognise that the backstop previously devised does not provide the basis for agreement
    ."

    Almost like they look forward to it all kicking off again.

    This will not end well.

  9. #4469
    Could start a fight in a convent. Mikael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasminNeedsGills View Post
    .....Scotland in particular but also Wales are hostile territory for tories and a fixed deposit of extremely safe seats for rival parties. If Wales and Scotland left, then the tories would effectively enjoy an all but unchangeable one party state all to themselves in the remaining countries.

    .....the party knows full well their best chance of maintain power in the face of demographic erosion is getting at least Scotland and ideally both Scotland and Wales to leave.
    Scotland's influence in UK general elections was topic of debate during the 2014 independence referendum. Unionists argued that Scotland's departure would condemn rUK to Tory rule in perpetuity but voting data does not appear to bear this out. Historically the removal of Scotland's MP's would only have changed the outcome when result of the election was either a slim majority or coalition government such as in 2010. For most elections it didn't matter which way Scotland voted, the Welsh and English voters ultimately decided which party formed government (with Scotland only effecting the size of the majority).

    Here is a telegraph article stating that returned MPs from Scotland only determined which party was in power 3 (possibly 4) times in the last 18 general elections. In those limited case the result was a close one.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...an-the-UK.html

    Removal of Scotland alone is unlikely to hand victory to the conservative party.
    Why is it that with everything in life I always find a more difficult way of doing it (and not intentionally)

  10. #4470
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post


    Maybe we should let the Clangers run the world for a bit?
    Tourets would be better than the current shower of shite.....
    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart


 

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