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Thread: Court case

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    Court case

    I not sure if this has been posed before but it may be of interest.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-44361799

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    Really have no sympathy for them - stealing items of a war grave is below contempt IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    Really have no sympathy for them - stealing items of a war grave is below contempt IMHO.
    I'd reserve judgement of that until there is a verdict myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFO View Post
    I'd reserve judgement of that until there is a verdict myself.
    The comment from one of them "Mr Ingram told police he had taken a condenser unit from the "vicinity" of HMS Hermes, but did not think it had come from the wreck itself." says enough as to their guilt. I wonder how many condensers just happen to be in the "vicinity" of sunken vessels but don't actually belong to them...

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    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    Really have no sympathy for them - stealing items of a war grave is below contempt IMHO.
    I think it is pretty safe to say that most wrecks are graves. Divers have been taking things from wrecks for decades. Why is it more heinous to remove items from one wreck than from another?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhitlow View Post
    I think it is pretty safe to say that most wrecks are graves. Divers have been taking things from wrecks for decades. Why is it more heinous to remove items from one wreck than from another?
    I would disagree with that on a couple of issues. Not all wrecks are graves- there are a significant number where no lives were lost in the sinking. Someone I know described it very well - there are screamers (where people died suddenly and the wreck is the final resting place of the crew and any passengers) and the rest.

    In particular, where it is known that people lost their lives, I would prefer to see the final resting places of those sailors left as intact as possible.

    With regards to the rest, then there are laws regarding salvage.

    Just because divers have been doing it for years doesn't make it right.

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    TDF Member topper133's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    Just because divers have been doing it for years doesn't make it right.
    Agreed and for all future divers there is less and less to see every year, just so someone can shove it in their shed! There is also the fact they didn't declare any of it!

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    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    I would disagree with that on a couple of issues. Not all wrecks are graves- there are a significant number where no lives were lost in the sinking. Someone I know described it very well - there are screamers (where people died suddenly and the wreck is the final resting place of the crew and any passengers) and the rest.
    I did not say all wreck are graves. When I look at the details of wrecks in Wrecksite I often see numbers of casualties listed and my observation relates to the inconsistency of how those casualties are viewed and why there is the distinction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    In particular, where it is known that people lost their lives, I would prefer to see the final resting places of those sailors left as intact as possible.
    With regards to the rest, then there are laws regarding salvage.
    Indeed, along with all the other laws that are commonly disregarded
    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    Just because divers have been doing it for years doesn't make it right.
    Agreed. I am not defending them and nor do I lift stuff from wrecks.

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    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topper133 View Post
    Agreed and for all future divers there is less and less to see every year, just so someone can shove it in their shed!
    Yep, as every years the wrecks decay and gradually collapse to the seabed. Eventually little will remain visible and all that will remain is the concreted forms of the non-ferrous parts of the wreck.
    Quote Originally Posted by topper133 View Post
    There is also the fact they didn't declare any of it!
    True. Since the law changed, and it became illegal to lift stuff from the seabed without a license, people who previously might have declared their find would now be foolish to declare them and admit they broke the law.
    Last edited by dwhitlow; 05-06-2018 at 03:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    In particular, where it is known that people lost their lives, I would prefer to see the final resting places of those sailors left as intact as possible.

    With regards to the rest, then there are laws regarding salvage.

    Just because divers have been doing it for years doesn't make it right.
    I agree with your sentiments in principle but what happens at sea unfortunately is not congruent with your sentiments. From a superstructure perspective a lot of the conning tower's of subs off Malin that I have seen have been either ripped of or are hanging off at an angle from being caught in fishing nets being dragged along the seabed by trawlers.

    From a human remains perspective, there is nothing left of them, nature takes its course bones and all, there are simply no human remains at all left other than personal articles such as clothing etc.

    From a spidge perspective if you think what divers get up to is bad I was advised last year by an oil and gas engineer who works on one of the pipe laying vessels that when they come across a wreck which is quite frequently, they send down the ROV down to open it up like a tin can and then they send down a very powerful hydraulic grabber that simply grabs hundreds of kilo's of wreckage in a single grab and brings it back to the ship for the crew to scavenge. After one or two bits of spidge is retrieved practically 99% of it is then just thrown back overboard.
    So really divers are not the real threat to wrecks, its nature, fishing and commercial outfits tbh.


 
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