Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17
  1. #11
    TDF Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Whitley Bay
    Posts
    235
    Likes (Given)
    89
    Likes (Received)
    87
    As a lifeguard trainer (both pool and beach lifeguard), I would agree with the majority of above, except for the 'unigrip method ', which I also have not heard of and with most techniques will have to be well and often practiced to have hopes of success.

    I used to use a newspaper clipping about a young teacher from the Midlands, who was in a near drowning incident in Sharm, apparently recovered, flew home and died five days after the incident to illustrate secondary drowning.

    Well done for taking action as it's remarkable how many people think that it's someone else's job and I hope that the rescued have had a happy outcome.

  2. #12
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    2,824
    Likes (Given)
    814
    Likes (Received)
    1362
    The Unigrip method was one I learnt for my RLSS Bronze Medallion certificate back in 1963! It is described here on page 42 on the PDF, page number 39 on the document.

    http://www.caloundracity.org.au/Book...ving-Story.pdf

  3. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    8,723
    Likes (Given)
    1286
    Likes (Received)
    2925
    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    The Unigrip method was one I learnt for my RLSS Bronze Medallion certificate back in 1963! It is described here on page 42 on the PDF, page number 39 on the document.

    http://www.caloundracity.org.au/Book...ving-Story.pdf
    I have a instructor manual that shows air sharing ... doesn’t mean we should do it now..

    My daughter was intrigued though ( recently done her RLSS pool lifeguard Qual )

    My 10 yr old boy has his RLSS Silver award already.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #14
    Prior Member Tim Digger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Midlands UK
    Posts
    4,293
    Likes (Given)
    2902
    Likes (Received)
    3271
    The term Secondary Drowning, although descriptive may be misleading. It is actually Non Cardiogenic Pulmonary Oedema of which there are a great number of causes, including blunt lung trauma, smoke inhalation, severe systemic sepsis, I could go on and on and on! The commonality is damage to the lung leading to inflammation (the same redness and swelling that surround an infected spot) it can be infective or non infective, but results in lung stiffness due to water accumulation from the inflammation and hence difficulty in breathing due to increased work of breathing. It takes time for the bodies response to be manifest and may present hours after inhalation of water when the initial resuscitation appears completely successful. Having ventilated and cared for a large number of people with Non Cardiogenic (that means its not heart failure causing accumulation of fluid in the lung) I can say I have only seen 1 or 2 cases of "Secondary drowning" probably because in the centre of England drownings are not too common.
    Evolution is great at solving problems. It's the methods that concern me.
    Tim Digger

  5. #15
    Established TDF Member steelemonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Too far from the sea!
    Posts
    10,141
    Likes (Given)
    2899
    Likes (Received)
    5883
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Digger View Post
    The term Secondary Drowning, although descriptive may be misleading. It is actually Non Cardiogenic Pulmonary Oedema of which there are a great number of causes, including blunt lung trauma, smoke inhalation, severe systemic sepsis, I could go on and on and on! The commonality is damage to the lung leading to inflammation (the same redness and swelling that surround an infected spot) it can be infective or non infective, but results in lung stiffness due to water accumulation from the inflammation and hence difficulty in breathing due to increased work of breathing. It takes time for the bodies response to be manifest and may present hours after inhalation of water when the initial resuscitation appears completely successful. Having ventilated and cared for a large number of people with Non Cardiogenic (that means its not heart failure causing accumulation of fluid in the lung) I can say I have only seen 1 or 2 cases of "Secondary drowning" probably because in the centre of England drownings are not too common.
    Thanks for the extra info. I take it though that you would still suggest that a near drowning victim be monitored after an event. Big Joe may be suggesting five days but are you saying other factors may have played a part in the incident in Sharm?
    What would your opinion be about the length of time that a casualty be monitored? I know this is a "how long is a piece of string" scenario, but I respect your opinions on these matters.
    Paul.
    If God had meant us to breathe underwater, he would have given us larger bank balances.
    Human beings were invented by water as a means of moving itself from one place to another.

  6. #16
    Prior Member Tim Digger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Midlands UK
    Posts
    4,293
    Likes (Given)
    2902
    Likes (Received)
    3271
    The question as to whether aspiration of water has occurred when an in water incident has occurred can be difficult. The intitiating insult will usually be water inhalation but frantic attempts to breathe against a closed glottis (voice box) may also play a part. True secondary drowning is pulmonary oedema due to aspiration of water as the irritant factor and I would be surprised if it occurred more than 12 or at most 24 hours after the event. Problems after this are probably pneumonia from organisms in the water. Any victim pulled unconscious from water should be assumed to have aspirated water and be at risk they should be somewhere where hospital admission can be rapidly achieved and be made aware of the risk. Those who have remained conscious throughout are at very low risk.
    Evolution is great at solving problems. It's the methods that concern me.
    Tim Digger

  7. #17
    TDF Member kingfisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Lytham, Lancs
    Posts
    116
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinal View Post
    Here's a short story - and a lesson learnt on my side.

    A bit of background - I've been diving a few years (since 2002), and have been first aid trained since at least 2000 (that's the earliest I remember). Since 2016, I'm also an EFR instructor, and a rescue diver since 2007 (if memory serves).

    On Friday, I was with some work colleagues at a burger festival. Cue hundreds of people, a few beers and way more burgers that I could eat. As we relaxed on the lake shore, (with people all around us), we hear someone talking (not shouting) at us from the shore "hilfe hilfe". My German is limited, but curious, I approach, and see two distressed swimmers in the water, about 30m from shore near some kids swimming.

    Dumping my mobile phone, wallet and shoes with my other half; I jump in the water, just as one of my colleagues does the same. We approach the swimmers, I call out (no response), look for their and my BCD to inflate (doh, not diving!), grab one of the swimmers arms near the bicep and start dragging them to shore. They turn around, grab me and try climbing on me. At this point I thought, "where's a bcd when you need it!?" Luckily, they were quite small and I can hold them (and my head) out of the water as I swim to shore, and within a few strokes I'm touching the slippery bottom. At this point, she hugs me and quiets down as I half-swim and half-walk to shore.

    At this point, I turn to see my colleague in a similar position (with the second swimmer, who was much larger), but he's more submissive and being dragged.

    Out of the water, they both recover quickly. Turns out the lady was swimming, started panicking when she realized there was a slight current and couldn't reach the bottom. The man tried to help, but she climbed on him and they ended up both in distress. The people in their group couldn't swim so looked for help.

    (they were really nice after they recovered. Refused ambulance/medical support, offered us coffee and whiskey as we dried. I stayed 15 minutes, then headed home... Jeans don't dry quickly)

    So, looking back, here are my mistakes (would appreciate some comment as to what to do differently):
    * next time, look for something that floats before jumping in... no idea what (maybe steal a kid's football?)
    * throw them a t-shirt or something to grab rather than holding onto them
    * avoid public transportation when wet... you get some weird looks turning up on the tram smelling like seaweed and totally drenched...
    * don't rely on ANYONE else to help (not that I did, but in retrospect I was shocked by the general attitude of the crowd)

    M.


    I remember many (many) years ago when I was about 13/14 at my schools swimming gala which was held at an Olympic size pool. I was a very good competition swimmer for my age but had not done life saving (prior to this incident)... The 11 year olds were doing their race (which was a width) while the rest of the competitors and teachers were on the side when a young (tiny) girl got into difficulties in the middle.

    I looked around, everyone else was looking around (including teachers) all feeling unsure. Anyway, I was the first to dive in and went straight to her to help..........., yes you have guessed it, she grabbed me and pushed me under, even though I thought I was "strong" and she was much younger and small. It was a shock to me, as I was there to help her - didn't she realise that I thought. I got her off me and managed to get hold of her from behind and rescued her fine (in the end), with the help of many others who followed after they saw what was happening in the middle of the pool.

    Big lesson learnt, ALWAYS APPROACH A CASUALTY FROM BEHIND a casualty will do anything to get their head out of the water!! I was teaching my 7yr old grandson just that just a few weeks ago as it happens.

    2nd lesson if you suspect something might be happening act straight away, if its a false alarm, much better you feel a fool (which you shouldn't), rather feeling the guilt of not acting and failing to avert a tragedy - which will haunt you for life!

    By the way, well done for acting quickly, you both clearly narrowly averted a tragedy.
    Last edited by kingfisher; 25-05-2018 at 10:55 PM. Reason: add a congratulation


 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •