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Thread: Pony

  1. #21
    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    if you feel a pony is the way for you then go for it! If you are diving with unknown, or unreliable, buddies and feel the need for an gas independent gas reserve then it is ideal. For the two dive boat days a single tank and pony gives more gas than twin 12s, provides more consistent weighting and weighs less. It is a simpler and cheaper transition than a twinset and requires little new equipment and no significant training (other than being comfortable switching regulators).

    I bought a pony in 2006 and it served me well for a number of years, until gas planning indicated more gas for a single dive than my 15litre will hold. At that point I bought a twinset and lots of other expensive stuff. I still have my single tank and pony setup (it is not for sale) and sold all the twinset stuff and now see that as an expensive dead end I could have avoided.

    I back-mounted my pony, with a Metalsub bracket on the cam-band offering quick release, had the regulator necklaced with the hose over my right shoulder, and had the SPG on the right side, opposite to that of my main cylinder. Some folk complain a pony is unbalanced but I found shifting a couple of kg to the left of the weight belt fixed that. It was always turned although I could (just) reach the valve to turn it on by pushing up the bottom of my cylinder.
    Last edited by dwhitlow; 11-04-2018 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #22
    Established WTF Member Spirit of Guernsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase View Post
    Fine so in your opinion it perfectly acceptable for me to calculate bailout on the following bassed on a 40 SAC & a 30% reserve:

    5ltr steel
    AL40 (5.5ltrs)
    7ltr steel
    10ltr steel
    AL80 (11 ltrs)
    12ltr steel

    Twin 7s

    Twin 12s

    Twin 15s

    Twin 20s



    Buuuuuuuut not on a 3ltr?? Can you explain why the gas laws change when using a 3ltr?
    I think that you missed the point.
    There are four varieties in society: the lovers, the ambitious, observers and fools. The fools are the happiest.
    Hippolyte Taine – French critic and historian (1828-93)

  3. #23
    Established TDF Member Wardy_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post

    Pony cons:
    * Costs and pretty much weighs the same as a twinset
    you what? how is the cost even close?

  4. #24
    Last of the Mohicans gobfish1's Avatar
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    edit
    move on nothing to see,
    Last edited by gobfish1; 16-04-2018 at 09:25 AM.
    None diver as of 2018.

  5. #25
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    The safest back up is the one you take. I would get bored very quick carrying a side slung 40 on a single cylinder, fannying round in 25-35m. Human nature, I'll just leave it this time...

    A 3 is bags of gas. I bailed at 40m on to a 3, did the ascent and a few min at 6m and barely made a dent. With a twinset, a 3 of oxygen lets you do a serious dive. Like Mike says, type of dive people "need" a box for.

    I like simple. A 12 and a 3 down the side. Evolutionary dead end? Dont make me laugh. Fuck me, it's not space exploration.

  6. #26
    Coastal Member dwhitlow's Avatar
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    a post with so much wrong I need to take it apart line by line
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    A few years ago, when I was new to diving and even newer to diving in the UK, I used to think that a PONY would be the answer to the redundant gas requirement. When thinking it through, for me it was obvious that it's a very specialist piece of kit that only works in a narrow range of scenarios.
    Indeed. A pony provides an adequate personal reserve for most recreational diving. It may be a narrow range of scenarios but accounts for most diving done by most divers!

    I'm not convinced it is that specialist. After all, it is just a small bottle of gas for breathing in an emergency!

    Why the caps for PONY?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    It became obvious to me that a PONY+regs would cost the same as a twin cylinders + regs
    If we assume he already has two cylinders (possibly 15s), a set of regs and a BC, then for a pony he needs one 3l cylinder, one first stage, one second stage, one LP hose, one SPG with HP hose and one pair of brackets. I'd also add a decanting whip.

    If one of his cylinders is a 12 litre then for twindies he doesn't need much more. However, that assumes his BC can accommodate the extra cylinder. Not every BC can support two cylinders so he may also need a new BC. Also, if he listens to some of the voices on here he'd be looking at manifolded twins with OPH and wing and be told to go on a course. That is an expensive change and offers no significant advantage for most recreational and club diving.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    but wouldn't work as well.
    Actually, the opposite is true. For recreational and club diving a single 15 and pony gives more gas per dive and provides less weight change during the dive so not so overweighted at the start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Moving forwards that few years, I honestly have never understood why people choose the PONY option when a twinset -- of any description: manifolded, independent (twindies), sidemount, small or large cylinders -- works so much better across a wide range of different scenarios.
    Perhaps you were looking at the wrong parameters. People choose a pony because it is good solution for recreational and club diving, with little or no deco, and for solo diving within recreational depths. That was the diving I was doing when I made that choice. At the time it was the right solution for me, as recreational diver and instructor.

    However, for diving in overhead environments (deco, caves etc) a pony is not the best solution and a twinset is also quite limited and twinsets also tend to breed (I ended up with three of them before I saw the light).
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Personally I think they're indicative of an old-school attitude to diving and would urge you to look at the alternatives -- even diving on singles with a better set of team-oriented buddies.
    Most diving done by most divers is recreational diving. Many divers are crap buddies so a personal reserve is prudent, although rarely needed. When teaching a personal reserve is also advisable, as you are in effect solo with an encumbrance, and something similar to the student is best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Pros of PONY:
    * Provides limited emergency gas in case of a total failure of your primary gas source
    That is a pretty big plus to me!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Pony cons:
    * Costs and pretty much weighs the same as a twinset
    Not true. A 3.75kg cylinder weights less than a 12.75kg cylinder, and that is before we add any gas!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    * Awkward balance of your single rig
    Adjusting the position of lead fixed that in water for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    * Awkward hose routing; difficult to re-stow
    Nothing hard about another hose over the right shoulder to a necklaced reg under the chin. If is needed then I don't think it will require restowing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    * Gas and regulators aren't used except for testing prior to every dive
    That is the same for most CCR bailouts too. I did do the occasional dive with my pony, more so than I use my bailouts!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    * Very limited gas available
    True, but adequate for the ascent from a recreational dive. A twinset also has very limited gas available.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    * Cannot see the gauge - generally they use button gauges
    Not true. SPG on long hose, as with the main cylinder. Button gauges are for suit bottles alone!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    * Must ensure it's turned on before every dive
    Can't argue with that! I think you will find breathing from it, and watching the gauge, as part of the pre-dive checks has that covered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    * Not designed for sharing - PONY's an acronym for Piss Off Not Yours
    It is a personal reserve. Why is that a disadvantage? The main cylinder gas reserve, via the octopus, if for sharing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Some maffs...
    Assume 200 bar x 3 litres = 600 litres of gas available (you breathe from it on each test)
    Assume an elevated SAC of 30 bar/min
    Assume a 30 metre clusterfuck....

    2 mins on the bottom is 30bar x 4ATA x 2mins= 320 bar (that's over half the gas used -- you'd better get the hell out of Dodge...)
    5 mins ascent - lets say average of 10 metres = 30 bar/min x 2ATA x 5 = 300 bar (oops, you've emptied the tin)
    Why wait 2 minutes at the bottom? How long does it take to communicate OOG to buddy and start to ascend?

    SMB, if required, can be done at 6m when gas requirements are less and where, in the worse case, the surface is in easy reach.

    Your maths showed 620 litres was needed. That is 207 bar in a 3 litres so it is just about enough, even after waiting 2 minutes for the bus!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    The point is that PONYs are small, somewhat too small.
    Your own calculations showed 660 litres for a direct ascent from 30m is adequate.

    Yes, a pony is small but it is adequate for the purpose for which it was intended and the decanting hose is essential to ensure it is a full reserve on every dive.

  7. #27
    Established TDF Member
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    I know ones attitude to PONYs is completely dependent on the type of diving you do and who you do it with, probably most influenced by the agency you're most affiliated with. From what I've seen, PONYs are most frequently associated with BSAC.

    Once I left the PADI fold the people I most frequently dived with all had twinsets. This has doubtedly affected my attitude to the benefits of twinsets for UK diving -- lots of redundancy, reliability and reserve gas. Once that jump has been made, a PONY seems like a poor solution.

    A PONY is better than nothing but only if it works.

  8. #28
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post


    A PONY is better than nothing but only if it works.
    One for your reach-around club?

    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  9. #29
    Self Defecating The Real Paulus's Avatar
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    I wish ya'll would wind yer necks in. I'm trying to give away a pony here...!
    Last edited by The Real Paulus; 11-04-2018 at 05:35 PM. Reason: typo

  10. #30
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    You don't look like you've spent a grand on courses you'll never need if you just strap a pony on. Like the pair of cnuts I saw diving the reserve at St Abbs with twinsets and stages. Fook knows how much damage they did clanging all that shit around but I thought they looked the pinnacle of manliness. I had a little moment where I thought it'd make me all Kevin Spacey.

    Don't forget every dive is an expedition and you won't go far wrong. One side slung 40 is never enough, then you can justify a scooter. And flog it all in two years.


 
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