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Thread: Pony

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdeadyet View Post
    Agreed.

    I love the sweeping generalisations made, based on opinions pulled out their arses, to justify whatever point.

    All users of ponies just strap them on and never think about it? No one ever practices air sharing? Same old arrogant shite. No one is ever as good as me.

    No wonder diving is dying on its arse.
    Is this ironic?

  2. #152
    Nicotine, valium, vicodin... notdeadyet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibs View Post
    Is this ironic?
    If I was making sweeping generalisations, inventing "facts" and pontificating shite about how a pony bottle will kill you with zero evidence then, yes, it would be.

    A guy wants to buy a pony rig and he gets told to buy four 7's. Good old tdf.

  3. #153
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdeadyet View Post
    If I was making sweeping generalisations, inventing "facts" and pontificating shite about how a pony bottle will kill you with zero evidence then, yes, it would be.

    A guy wants to buy a pony rig and he gets told to buy four 7's. Good old tdf.
    To be fair he was offered a free tank...

  4. #154
    Grumpy Git, Not Old Yet...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    To be fair he was offered a free tank...
    And I didn't ACTUALLY mention the F word...

  5. #155
    Old but keen Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Carr View Post
    If I'm diving with people I know and trust, I don't worry too much about not having a pony but seeing some of the responses on that forum, I certainly wouldn't want to rely on some of them.
    I have seen enough people lose buoyancy and get in a right mess just sending up a SMB to know they'd be more of a problem not a cure in an OOA

    I am big on empirical data

    1 : If you want to see the person who will do their best to keep you alive no matter what, look in the mirror

    2: Ponys are a much lower skill set than OOA buddy ascents

    Those are the two key factors in the discussion

    Pisses me off that experienced divers preach to the new divers about Ponies being dangerous when the alternative is, by any measure, more dangerous

    Could I assist an OOA diver? Yes most likely as long as he/she staid within reasonable bounds of calm

    Could I have done that in my first 5-10 years as a diver where I dived mainly on holiday less than 20 dives a year?

    Probably not, I was barely capable of keeping my own shit together

    Have I witnessed first hand people who pontificate about the buddy system pushed to actualy doing it and screwing up? Yes

    Read the incident reports

    "He was right behind me, then I looked around and he was gone" figures in far to many of the fatality reports

    I don't give a f##K if people think I am an opinionated dick for putting it out there that 90% of buddies cant be relied on.

    If it saves one person, I did OK

  6. #156
    Established TDF Member MikeF's Avatar
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    what a load of bollocks and conflicting advice on this thread.

    pony's never being touched so they are dangerous as people don't practice using them :

    pony / stage / indies / sidemount / bailout cylinders are all the bloody same, it's a cylinder with a reg on it.

    why would you not breath from the cylinders you have with you in the water to confirm they are working and that you can deploy the reg when you need to?

    I'm in the check it works on the surface before you jump in. check you can get to it on the way down or when you hit the bottom. deploy it, breathe it, put it away, put your hand on it every now and again during the dive to make sure you know where it is.

    if you buy a pony, then take it in, and bloody use it. make sure you have plenty of gas in your main cylinder, deploy the pony reg and switch. switch back, put it away, repeat. try breathing off it at 20m or whatever. no stress just swim about, see how long it takes you to go through 100 bar or 150 bar. switch back to main cylinder. put pony reg away, continue dive.

    do it enough times that it becomes absolutely second nature and suddenly switching to your pony cylinder of whatever size is appropriate to the depth is stress free as you know you have loads of gas and how long it lasts. congratulations you are now not going to die from running out of gas with a spare full cylinder strapped to you, but you may well if you run out of gas without a spare cylinder strapped to you.

    that's it. end of argument about practice and carrying of redundant gas supplies.

    don't touch it it's for emergency use only :

    utter bollocks. see above

    people will drown if they breathe from a pony instead of their main cylinder

    why? surely they just have a short dive but they now have a pony that lasts an amazingly long time to ascend on?

    go for your buddy's AAS rather than use your own pony:

    An assisted ascent that depends on your new buddy is safer than sticking a working reg in your mouth and making a normal ascent is it? Utter bollocks. It may be a good time to practice an assisted ascent if you want to but personally I'd rather do that practice when everything is working. in my world the OOG person can have their own redundant gas supply, then they can have my redundant gas supply but they ain't sucking down my primary gas I need until there is no other option.

    obviously horse for courses but I understood we were not discussing being 2 hours inside a cave or whatever we were discussing about pratting about in 30m or less with a clear surface and no, or very limited, deco.

  7. #157
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    ....
    do it enough times that it becomes absolutely second nature and suddenly switching to your pony cylinder of whatever size is appropriate to the depth is stress free as you know you have loads of gas and how long it lasts. congratulations you are now not going to die from running out of gas with a spare full cylinder strapped to you, but you may well if you run out of gas without a spare cylinder strapped to you.

    that's it. end of argument about practice and carrying of redundant gas supplies.
    If people did exactly what you are suggesting I doubt there would be much argument about it. The debate is about those people that do not take your good advice...



    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    ...

    people will drown if they breathe from a pony instead of their main cylinder

    why? surely they just have a short dive but they now have a pony that lasts an amazingly long time to ascend on?
    .
    The fact remains the same that there are recorded instances of people who do not do that but drown with a full primary tank. I think I am right in saying the first fatality on the Scylla was one? Thankfully such incidents are rare but they do exist nevertheless. I will stick my neck out a bit and make a wild guess these unfortunate people did not follow your advice on developing a habit of using the bailout now and then during normal diving.

    A bit like the NRA claim guns don't kill, people do, it is at one level correct, but accidental deaths from guns require guns to have an accident with. Poor dive skills are the problem not the equipment, those that see equipment as a substitute for poor dive skills are going round in circles...

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    if you buy a pony, then take it in, and bloody use it. make sure you have plenty of gas in your main cylinder, deploy the pony reg and switch. switch back, put it away, repeat. try breathing off it at 20m or whatever. no stress just swim about, see how long it takes you to go through 100 bar or 150 bar. switch back to main cylinder. put pony reg away, continue dive.

    do it enough times that it becomes absolutely second nature and suddenly switching to your pony cylinder of whatever size is appropriate to the depth is stress free as you know you have loads of gas and how long it lasts. congratulations you are now not going to die from running out of gas with a spare full cylinder strapped to you, but you may well if you run out of gas without a spare cylinder strapped to you.
    To paraphrase: practice with it?

  9. #159
    Grumpy Git, Not Old Yet...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post

    A bit like the NRA claim guns don't kill, people do, it is at one level correct...
    Not entirely...

    Guns don't kill people, rappers do (sound of da police, woo woo woo).

  10. #160
    TDF Member DaveBarber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    If people did exactly what you are suggesting I doubt there would be much argument about it. The debate is about those people that do not take your good advice...
    The fact remains the same that there are recorded instances of people who do not do that but drown with a full primary tank. I think I am right in saying the first fatality on the Scylla was one? Thankfully such incidents are rare but they do exist nevertheless. ...
    Not exclusive to ponys.

    I've seen twinset divers with the manifold shut and only one tank open. Suit inflate was on the closed one.
    Similar set up the diver breathed the open one down and failed to equalise.
    Loads of variations on this.


 
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