Reg upgrade... worthwhile?

[drysuitdiver]

My DS4 and ATX 40 And TX40 weren’t new to me when I got them .. a service ( sadly paid through nose as can’t get service kits in UK unless you have a special handshake )

They work great . Not been serviced since as they still do ...

My scubapro ones have had one service in 15 years ... breathed lovely . Only reason serviced was interstate pressure was creeping up more rapidly than i liked


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[Paulo]

Thanks to this thread I decided to check out ebay to see what a brand new Apeks DS4 & ATX 40 would cost me. So I bought another set for £168 incl postage as it would be costing me money not to buy it at that price

I probably should have gone to someone like ripoff direct where it would have only cost me £270 for the same thing

The set I ordered arrived yest. Now to get a chance to actually go diving!!

[Neilwood]

My DS4 and ATX 40 And TX40 weren’t new to me when I got them .. a service ( sadly paid through nose as can’t get service kits in UK unless you have a special handshake )

They work great . Not been serviced since as they still do ...

My scubapro ones have had one service in 15 years ... breathed lovely . Only reason serviced was interstate pressure was creeping up more rapidly than i liked


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I think that is the approach I am going to follow - buy an IP gauge to check the pressure and only service if it ends up creeping or I get freeflows. I don't believe the usual LDS bulltish "you must service it according to the schedule because it is life support gear" - the true life support gear is between my ears. If the gear works, don't mess with it.

[Tewdric]

Would you be happy if British Airways took that attitude to maintaining their planes next time you have to fly with them?

It’s not just you that suffers if you have an equipment failure underwater, it affects your buddy or team too. If you don’t make it back there is family left behind as well.

There are lots of people in here who have a hope-for-the-best attitude to equipment maintenance - don’t succumb to peer pressure, make your own mind up. Personally all my Apeks regs get serviced according to the manufacturers schedule.

[ebt]

Just bear in mind that most modern regs are diaphragm.....and diaphragms lose their elasticity.....

[AxeMan]

Just bear in mind that most modern regs are diaphragm.....and diaphragms lose their elasticity.....

They definitely breathe worse after a couple of years which is when I personally have mine done.

[Neilwood]

Would you be happy if British Airways took that attitude to maintaining their planes next time you have to fly with them?

It’s not just you that suffers if you have an equipment failure underwater, it affects your buddy or team too. If you don’t make it back there is family left behind as well.

There are lots of people in here who have a hope-for-the-best attitude to equipment maintenance - don’t succumb to peer pressure, make your own mind up. Personally all my Apeks regs get serviced according to the manufacturers schedule.

Hardly a similar example. Commercial airliner has approx 350,000 components which are all designed to work together to provide a usable plane - a lot of those are subject to VERY high stress environments such as large hot/cold extremes with thermal expansion and metal fatigue (exacerbated by the thermal stresses). There are systems to check other systems. The systems and parts are all inspected and serviced by fully qualified technicians who have undergone a substantial amount of training (months or years).

Have you ever serviced a car or replaced a part on it such as brake discs/pads? My car back in the day where I wasn't on a lease with a service plan, I would investigate a problem and deal with it.

How many people have issues with newly serviced regs for example and take them back to get "tweaked"? Bear in mind that with a local dive shop your regs could be serviced by someone that has completed the hugely extensive 1/2 or 1 day course (which covers that manufacturers entire range)? In a regulator set, there are a limited number of parts which can be checked fairly simply.

Borrowed from another forum:

Regulator inspection checklist

Here are a few checks that everyone is capable of doing.
Items 1, 2, and 3 are just routine inspections that should only take a few minutes.
Items 4, 5, 6, and 8 should be performed before every dive and should only take a few minutes once you establish a routine.

1. Inspect for external corrosion or physical damage to any parts including hoses. Pay particular attention to the hose to fitting interface for any signs of damage.

2. Inspect the first stage inlet filter for discoloration, particulate matter or any other signs of water intrusion.

3. Check each hose connection to see that it is at least hand tight. It is an essential check after service or reassembly and a good check to make occasionally after that.

4. Next, watertight checks are also very easy to perform and check the integrity of the second stage housing. Connect the regulator to a tank and without turning on the air (or if you have a good tight dust cap you can use that instead) draw a breath on the second stage and hold it for a few seconds. Do not draw too hard as it will collapse the exhaust valves and cause a leak. Does the regulator hold vacuum? If so, then it is probably watertight. If the regulator fails this vacuum check you probably have a leak in the exhaust valve, the diaphragm or in one of the o-rings sealing the case or through a crack in the case itself.

5. Pressurize the regulator. Depress the purge slightly. If you have to depress it more than a very slight amount before airflow starts, the lever may be improperly adjusted, reducing the working range of the valve and the flow rate of the reg.

6. Check for air leaks by putting regulator on a tank and with the pressure on, first listen to any leaks, then turn the tank valve off but do not purge the reg. Note the SPG pressure and leaving it undisturbed come back in 5 or 10 minutes. The SPG pressure should be close to the original value. A drop of 200-400 psi is no big deal, but a large drop in pressure indicates something is leaking beyond the normal limits. If the leak is so fast you can see the needle drop just looking at it, the leak is probably large enough to warrant fixing before you dive.

7. To locate a leak, the definite answer comes by submerging all parts of the regulator in a water tub or similar container. Check the first stage, the second stages, the pressure gauge, and all the hoses with special attention to all the fittings. Check around any hose connections as well as all around the first stage and out the mouthpiece of all second stages for small bubbles.

8. Leave the regulator sit in a pressurized condition for a few minutes. If the second stage begins to free flowing slightly immediately after you stop inhaling from it, it is most likely in need of adjustment or annual service due to improper second stage orifice adjustment or excessive LP seat wear.

If the primary or octopus begins free flowing slightly a few seconds to a few minutes after you last breathed off it, it indicates IP creep - most commonly caused by a leaking HP seat or damaged first stage orifice.

9. Intermediate pressure check. Get a scuba regulator intermediate pressure gauge:
Tech Diver IP Gauge - Universal Inflator
Intermediate Pressure Gauge Plugs Into The BCD Quick Disconnect Hose
You can also put one together or your LDS may have one for sale.

Find out what the IP range should be for your regulator (most are ~ 135 +/- 10 psi.) Connect your regulator to a tank and open the tank valve. Connect the IP gauge to the LP inflator hose, and lightly press the purge a few times to "cycle" the regulator.

The intermediate pressure should dip whenever the air is flowing, and immediately return to the acceptable range and remain steady. If it tends to climb (creep) that indicates there is a problem with the first stage that must be corrected. It's not a bad idea to leave the regulator pressurized with the IP gauge connected for several minutes to check for slow IP creep.

It should be noted that the IP of balanced and non- balanced first stages react differently to changing tank pressures. Balanced first stages should keep a relatively constant IP over the entire range of tank pressure. Any significant changes in the IP indicate a first stage problem. The IP of non-balanced regs will vary up or down by several PSI as tank pressure varies, the amount and direction of the change varies with regulator design.

(Thank you Herman for the above; the important thing to keep in mind is the IP should not creep after lock up and be within the manufactures parameters.)

10. Another check is the cracking pressure of each second stage. Partially fill your kitchen sink and immerse the pressurized regulator with the mouthpiece up. Air should begin to flow before the regulator gets more than 1 1/2 inches deep. If the mouthpiece is submerged before the regulator starts to flow, the cracking pressure is probably too high.

11. A tiny bit more advanced, remove second stage diaphragm cover to inspect for any corrosion, damage, sand or any other contaminants. Clean sand and contaminants as necessary. On some regulators it is very easy to open and inspect second stages, but not all. It is a good idea to learn how to open your second stage to clean it. Note: If you do not feel comfortable opening up your second stage, this step can be omitted.

These simple checks can be done by anyone. They should be done prior to any dive trip, not to mention when new out of the box or after shop service.

Check early, check often.

Should the checks above reveal that my regs are in need of a service, they will get done. I dive with people regularly who have regs that have not been serviced for over 5 years and are still 100% operational and within manufacturers spec for IP. They do something similar to the checks above (which are almost exactly what the shop will do to determine how well they are functioning).

[Tewdric]

Scuba regulators have such an easy life in comparison with 200 bar plus pressure differentials and regular exposure to salt water environments!

[graham_hk]

Scuba regulators have such an easy life in comparison with 200 bar plus pressure differentials and regular exposure to salt water environments!

It’s clear to me you don’t have the first understanding of regulators and:or haven’t been diving for long...or you wouldn’t be servicing them every year.

Most regulators fail safe (except a few poisondons) which means should they fail you get gas. Essentially the mechanism holds the system closed rather than opening it (against pressure).

Why would anybody invest time and effort (and money) to fix something that is functioning properly - easily checked with an ip gauge?

[Chrisch]

....
Why would anybody invest time and effort (and money) to fix something that is functioning properly ...

There is a rather obvious answer to that question but I fear it will not be a well received one

[Tewdric]

It’s clear to me you don’t have the first understanding of regulators and:or haven’t been diving for long...or you wouldn’t be servicing them every year.

Most regulators fail safe (except a few poisondons) which means should they fail you get gas. Essentially the mechanism holds the system closed rather than opening it (against pressure).

Why would anybody invest time and effort (and money) to fix something that is functioning properly - easily checked with an ip gauge?

O rings, diaphragms and lubricants degrade over time, second stages can go out of adjustment, breathing resistance can increase and salt crystals and crud can build up within the mechanisms. The way to prevent these potentially causing problems is to service regs on schedule.

It’s true that modern regs are incredibly reliable and lots of people report running them for years seemingly without issue and this anecdata reinforces the view that servicing is not necessary. I choose not to subscribe to that view personally.

I’m not trying to pick an argument here just speaking up for those of us who do choose to maintain their kit so that people like the OP can make an informed decision.

[graham_hk]

O rings, diaphragms and lubricants degrade over time, second stages can go out of adjustment, breathing resistance can increase and salt crystals and crud can build up within the mechanisms. The way to prevent these potentially causing problems is to service regs on schedule.

It’s true that modern regs are incredibly reliable and lots of people report running them for years seemingly without issue and this acecdata reinforces the view that servicing is not necessary. I choose not to subscribe to that view personally.

I’m not trying to pick an argument here just speaking up for those of us who do choose to maintain their kit so that people like the OP can make an informed decision.

For £10 and a tiny (if you can change a lightbulb is enough) amount of technical capacity you can check function of your regs and reliably increase service interval to years maybe decades, I can see annual servicing for people doing hundreds of dives but most uk divers I know/see are doing 20 per year many in freshwater

[Chrisch]

....
It’s true that modern regs are incredibly reliable and lots of people report running them for years seemingly without issue and this acecdata reinforces the view that servicing is not necessary. I choose not to subscribe to that view personally..

For £10 and a tiny (if you can change a lightbulb is enough) amount of technical capacity you can check function of your regs and reliably increase service interval to years maybe decades, ..

The difference of view is periodicity not the removal altogether of the need to service regulators. The manufacturer's recommendation is designed to remove any possibility that the regulator might be compromised by the misuse and neglect of the owner. The bullshit that is prevalent about component degradation is - in my view - spread by those with a vested interest in selling service kits. If the reg is properly washed, dried and stored it will last many many years without any further attention. If it is still salty when stored the salt crystallises and can cause many problems and in extremis the total failure of the reg due to spot corrosion. However, salt only builds up if you don't clean it properly.

The individual user should choose the periodicity of service dependent on the frequency of use, care of cleaning and other variable criteria. If you don't have the knowledge the obvious thing is to go safe and service sooner rather than later. That said what gets me more than anything is the shit level of service some people receive combined with bad advice and outright lies from dive shops. I think most problems with regulators are due to bad servicing rather than neglect by the owner. If you LDS is not doing the job well then you are wasting your money and increasing the risk of in water failure.

There seems to me to be more misinformation and general bollocks about this subject than there is fact (a bit like O2 cleaning).

[ebt]

The truth will lie somewhere in the middle.

My personal regs probably see a service about every 5 years, but every year that top pressure compensator membrane needs to be slackened off then retightened whilst pressurised.

I wouldnt run the risk of long service intervals on poseidens, since I've had a couple of the HP seats let go on me.

The key bit is not to blindly follow advise without understanding how/why your particular reg could fail.

[gobfish1]

The truth will lie somewhere in the middle.

My personal regs probably see a service about every 5 years, but every year that top pressure compensator membrane needs to be slackened off then retightened whilst pressurised.

I wouldnt run the risk of long service intervals on poseidens, since I've had a couple of the HP seats let go on me.

The key bit is not to blindly follow advise without understanding how/why your particular reg could fail.

ello sir
poseidens what model are we taking about 300 5000 or the jetstream xstream
the 300 and 5000 iv got have been fine never needed to replace parts good strip down and a good clear each year reset ip , (never likes the jets or the Xstreams my self)
did try pushing it to 2 years but had the odd one play up . crud in 2nd stage.



iv trashed a few Purge Buttons and replaced one exhaust diaphragm , always cleaned them well , tho cant do that if you dont strip them down 2nd stage crud,s up .
1st just go,s on and on, only the filter may want a clean , if you had a few oilless fills lol.

some are getting on in years started buying them in 82 lol how time flys
wont give the number of regs i own as it.s rether embarrassing