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  1. #21
    Established TDF Member Energy58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottle maker View Post
    Unfortunately a lot of incidents in BSAC clubs do not get reported as the clubs feel it reflects badly on them. I know of several incidents not reported by the clubs who's members were involved. Two of these would have led to deaths if other people had not been involved in the rescue efforts. One of them is a classic example of the incident pit.
    I dont think that is at all unusual, sadly people get squeamish about reporting stuff and convince themselves it isn't worth reporting so only really bad incidents get reported and near misses are under reported

  2. #22
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    I did an incident report some years ago after my wife suffered a fast ascent when using a brand new undersuit - her old one ripped a few days before a dive trip. It was caused by a metalised lining in the suit which was so closely woven that it could be blown up like a balloon. After washing, it was fine. This never made it in the BSAC Incident Report for that year.

  3. #23
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    Edit: Forgot where we were, inappropriate for this thread.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Turbanator; 25-10-2017 at 02:02 PM.
    'I saw some purple slug things on the Scylla, so I squished them' - #MiniBodger

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMacallan View Post
    As those two divers died in Scotland then Scottish Law prevails.
    In Scotland there is no “Coroner” and no “inquest”.
    It is the Procurator Fiscal.
    He/she will decide if a FAI is required…… and for recreational diving deaths this is rarely done.
    The PF may not be a diver but they will spend a fair chunk of time understanding what happened and if there any lessons to be learned.
    They may well interview relevant parties (privately).

    My thoughts are with the family and friends of those two divers.
    Only too true, having been present at a fatality in Scottish waters (not recently) at which there was some very questionable diving practices. I was never even asked to give a statement on what happened. Only asked for my name, address, D of B, no further contact from police who attended after the event and that was the end of it.
    Always regretted not taking it further at the time although it was made known to some senior BSAC persons later and action was taken.
    Don't ask, I'm saying no more.
    Last edited by thistlediver; 26-10-2017 at 07:10 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMacallan View Post
    As those two divers died in Scotland then Scottish Law prevails.
    In Scotland there is no “Coroner” and no “inquest”.
    It is the Procurator Fiscal.
    He/she will decide if a FAI is required…… and for recreational diving deaths this is rarely done.
    The PF may not be a diver but they will spend a fair chunk of time understanding what happened and if there any lessons to be learned.
    They may well interview relevant parties (privately).

    My thoughts are with the family and friends of those two divers.
    Only too true. Having been a witness to a fatality in Scottish waters quite some time ago at which there were some very questionable diving practices I was never even asked to give a statement by the police who attended after the incident.
    Always regretted not taking it further at the time but it was made known to some senior BSAC people much later and action was taken.
    Don't ask, I'm saying no more.

  6. #26
    Moderator GLOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topper133 View Post
    Another sad loss and tragic event, but what I never see in this sport is incident analysis where people can learn from other mistakes or situations (not saying this was a mistake on anybodies part I have no more info than whats in the BBC article), but I fear this is the last we will hear of this, along with the many other incidents this year.

    Having come from another extreme sport (skydiving), incidents there are discussed and analysed publicly, not for the purpose of manufacturer or user bashing, but purely to learn and improve the safety of the sport. Why is diving so closed when it comes to discussing these?
    Topper, incident reporting and analysis is a very big subject. One which Tim, JT and others have mentioned I am involved in.

    Factors include:
    - No effective taxonomy to determine causality - most reporting systems focus on outcomes e.g. OOA, not 'how' or 'why'.
    - No independent reporting system which has the support of all of the agencies.
    - A poor just culture when it comes to talking about incidents
    - People invest a massive amount of money and time into diving, they don't like to know they are fallible.
    - A focus on outcomes rather than failed processes.
    - The lack of accountability for the 'system' failures by organisations - training organisations have an 'air gap' between them and the client using the instructor to hold the risk.
    - Very few people formally trained in incident analysis at a system-level rather than looking at the proximal cause.
    - Risk is in the eye of the beholder, so how do you manage risk
    - Fatalities are emergent events (multiple, apparently irrelevant, factors converge but are only apparent in hindsight.)
    - The lack of resource (people, IT systems) to undertake data capture, analysis and reporting and create change.
    - A fear that reporting leads to control over the sport
    - Competition which is based around blaming other organisations for 'unsafe' practices.

    Lots more on the blog here https://www.humanfactors.academy/p/blog and couple of videos here https://vimeo.com/user40492168, one from TekDiveUSA and one from the Long Beach Scuba Show.

    How to solve it? Now therein lies the challenge!

    Regards
    Gareth

    www.imagesoflife.co.uk - Underwater Print Sales, Teaching and Stock Library
    www.cognitas.org.uk - Improving Safety by Challenging Current Practices
    www.divingincidents.org - Diving Incident and Safety Management System (DISMS)
    - 2014 Report here

    “Set your expectations high; find men and women whose integrity and values you respect; get their agreement on a course of action; and give them your ultimate trust.”

    “It is far better to be trusted and respected than it is to be liked.”


 
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