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  1. #1
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    Diver fatality in Scapa Flow

    Sad news, fatality on the Markgraf

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...tland-41658799

    RIP
    Remember anything you read on the internet was probably written by some guy sitting at home in his underpants! Including this !!

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  2. #2
    Not short, just concentrated awesome ;) smileydiver's Avatar
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    The second in a few weeks. Very sad and I imagine I am not the only one worried that a TDF member is there at the mo. I hope they weren't involved but thoughts with all the loved ones and those that were involved
    The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever - Jacques Cousteau

  3. #3
    TDF Member topper133's Avatar
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    Another sad loss and tragic event, but what I never see in this sport is incident analysis where people can learn from other mistakes or situations (not saying this was a mistake on anybodies part I have no more info than whats in the BBC article), but I fear this is the last we will hear of this, along with the many other incidents this year.

    Having come from another extreme sport (skydiving), incidents there are discussed and analysed publicly, not for the purpose of manufacturer or user bashing, but purely to learn and improve the safety of the sport. Why is diving so closed when it comes to discussing these?

  4. #4
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by topper133 View Post
    Having come from another extreme sport (skydiving), incidents there are discussed and analysed publicly, not for the purpose of manufacturer or user bashing, but purely to learn and improve the safety of the sport. Why is diving so closed when it comes to discussing these?
    I think the problem comes from it being extremely difficult to tell exactly what happened and what the root causes were when a diving accident occurs (not always of course but often. Even the coroners seem to have difficulty with it). As a result, you get a wagonload of speculation and very little fact, and that makes for a pretty shaky base to try to learn from. Just take the CCR accident list for example; packed with sketchy "facts", some of which are misleading or plain wrong and a fair amount of the analysis is used to push a revolutionary product that doesn't exist yet. There are some groups who try to get to the facts and share learning - BSAC's list and DISMS for example.

  5. #5
    TDF Member topper133's Avatar
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    I guess that make sense, in some (maybe a lot) of circumstances, but certainly not all, just seems like any incident, even near misses, are quietly forgotten.

  6. #6
    Gone diving back later Vanny's Avatar
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    Any diving incident can be reported to the BSAC (governing body) incident recording system. Not just BSAC involved incidents. This is collated annually and reported on at the annual diving conference, this weekend. Trends may be identified and training influenced within the BSAC accordingly, other agencies are free to use the info provided.

    Whilst this isn't perfect for any number of reasons , accuracy of reports for example, it is better than nothing and goes someway to answering your question.

  7. #7
    Needing a poo CraigofScotland's Avatar
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    Far to many fatalities this year

  8. #8
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jturner View Post
    I think the problem comes from it being extremely difficult to tell exactly what happened and what the root causes were when a diving accident occurs (not always of course but often. Even the coroners seem to have difficulty with it). As a result, you get a wagonload of speculation and very little fact, and that makes for a pretty shaky base to try to learn from. Just take the CCR accident list for example; packed with sketchy "facts", some of which are misleading or plain wrong and a fair amount of the analysis is used to push a revolutionary product that doesn't exist yet. There are some groups who try to get to the facts and share learning - BSAC's list and DISMS for example.
    DAN do publish incident reports as well AFAIK

  9. #9
    Prior Member Tim Digger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanny View Post
    Any diving incident can be reported to the BSAC (governing body) incident recording system. Not just BSAC involved incidents. This is collated annually and reported on at the annual diving conference, this weekend. Trends may be identified and training influenced within the BSAC accordingly, other agencies are free to use the info provided.

    Whilst this isn't perfect for any number of reasons , accuracy of reports for example, it is better than nothing and goes someway to answering your question.
    This is both the strength and the weakness of the BSAC reporting system, while it makes some effort to obtain reports from non BSAC members and this improves the overall numbers and completeness of the report, it makes drawing conclusions re changes in incidence of incidents very difficult as there is no knowledge of the number of dives (or divers) performing dives. Just suppose that due to economic downturn, bad weather or a number of other causes the total number of dives in British waters is say 70% of the previous years, this will influence the statistics and give a spuriously favourable number of incidents. This problem is common to any collection of dives from any geographic locality and Gloc has spent a long time trying to solve it. Largely without success. Add to this the difficulties already alluded to re ascertaining the cause of a given incident and it becomes impossible to see whether any change in training, diving practices or health screening is making any difference.
    I do agree that there is merit in discussing individual cases but there is an understandable reluctance to do this early and before an inquest that often takes months.
    Evolution is great at solving problems. It's the methods that concern me.
    Tim Digger

  10. #10
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    As those two divers died in Scotland then Scottish Law prevails.
    In Scotland there is no “Coroner” and no “inquest”.
    It is the Procurator Fiscal.
    He/she will decide if a FAI is required…… and for recreational diving deaths this is rarely done.
    The PF may not be a diver but they will spend a fair chunk of time understanding what happened and if there any lessons to be learned.
    They may well interview relevant parties (privately).

    My thoughts are with the family and friends of those two divers.


 
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